WIL WHEATON dot NET: 1.5

Wow...now when people ask me what RTFM means I can just forward them to this link. Classic! Thanks Wil!

Cheers, Wil. Type of thing that'll keep my friends amused for hours!

BTW, well done in the Bloggies - you totally deserve it.

Fantastic links, Wil! Thanks for sharing.

Where's the controversy? Surely everyone who reads wwdn is wise enough to know that "corporate America" is an accurate description. Our politicians are owned by all kinds of big business entities. This time, some people got caught.

There. That ought to set off some people. My work here is done.

RTFM is great. The only problem is, what about when the manual's been written by monkeys? Or the instructions are on voicemail with circular references? Then it should be K(ick)T(he)F'ingM(anual)W(riter).

Where's Dick Cheney? In a secure location, safe from all those screwed by Enron. He's probably shredding the notes from his meetings he won't disclose. :-)

Wil! You edited. Like it was your prerogative or something.

That's scary.

I'm scared...*shudders* But some of them are damn hilarious, so I can deal with it.

I saw you on Beat the Geeks recently, I don't know if it was a rerun or not, but I kinda went "DUDE! Wil Wheaton's on Beat the Geeks!"

It was amusing.

Congrats on the Bloggies! Your website is awesome, it deserved to win!

Now, I'm off to watch the episode of the Daily Show I taped last night...didn't want to miss Jon Stewart making fun of the State of the Union...

~Sarah

I know I've seen that RTFM link before, but thanks for linking to it again! I've _got_ to stop forgetting things when I reformat my system...my bookmarks disappeared a while back, and last time I managed to nuke my old e-mail and phone numbers. Ooops. Felt really stoopid. With two o's.

Gotta love the way they send it through microsoft.com. Classic.

I used to volunteer with Project Vote Smart back in the days when they were based in a cramped basement at Oregon State University. I can't say enough about what that group of volunteers does in the cause of educating voters.

Gak - my companies proxy won't load the voter registration page. Need to re-register, I missed the last vote 'cause I'd just moved from Anchorage to Seattle was was busy with all sorts of getting-used-to-a-new-town crap. Now I can't bitch about anything local until the next round of voting. Bleah.

[soapbox]
(That's my attitude, at least - if ya don't vote, don't bitch. You didn't exercise your right to have a say in how things are run, therefore you shouldn't whine because things aren't going your way. Conversely, if you did vote - bitch away. The rest of us do! (grin))
[/soapbox]

"...the political process must be put back into the hands of the people" -- This is true.

However, "...and taken away from wealthy individuals" -- hmmmm, I'm not saying this is wrong, but perhaps some caution is advised, do you really want society's losers calling the shots?

"...and taken away from...corporations" -- sure, if at the same time you take it away from the unions. Actually, how much would it suck if corporations controlled everything...do you think they would make it so no one had jobs? Or, would their policies be the best thing for the economy? So their profits would go up...gee, my IRA/401k/investments would hate that.

While I'm on the subject, do you think corporations pay taxes? If you do, you're an idiot. Corporations don't exist. They are fictitious entities. The purchasers of their products pay for the raw materials, the salaries of the workers, the bonuses for the execs, the dividends for the investors and, yes, every cent of their taxes. Taxes on corporations are just hidden taxes on every person in American...and a regressive tax at that. If Bill Gates eats a couple of times a McDonald's and some poor sap does the same thing, they both are paying the exact same hidden tax to the government (in addition to sales tax), which is being filtered through McDonald's books and "called" a corporate tax.

Enron...if you'd stop listening to the liberal slanted major media...is an argument AGAINST campaign finance reform. Enron paid millions to hundreds of politicians...and what did they get...NOTHING...they went bankrupt!!! Duh! Did you ever stop to think why big media is so much for campaign finance reform? The fewer dollars going to politicians and political parties, the more clout the medial has in comparison, since the politicians are less able to get their messages out without the aid of big media. Think about it people.

Finally, Yes, please register to vote. Unless your a moron.

Great site Wil. Keep up the good work. You've converted me from a Wil-Basher to a Wil-Defender. Wesley would have kicked Anakin's ass.

Don, you sound familiar. You're not DonArson, right? That kind of coincidence would shatter my universe.

i could write a book about what's wrong with that post-- ie. corporate America, "society's losers calling the shots", etc. but i just don't have the time to type it all out here, When i have time, the topic will probably be too old.

but, if you ARE DonArson, then you enjoy antagonizing. So i'll just let it slide.

No. We VOTE for the morons of our choice.

Very interesting..the only problem there being the fact that a) I'm Canadian and though I probably should give a damn Idon't about American politics and b) Well when I'm old enough tyo vote in a few months I won't be able to so it kinda screw that heh...

Fred Fowler's back. Kick ass.

What the hell has happened? And for all the Canadians out there, do we really have a choice
about who becomes Prime Minister? Think about it.
What happened in the last two elections?
Why do Canadians have to be so laid back when it comes to being severly screwed by the government?
It's 1837 all over again, except worse. I want a
responsible government. If you have no idea what I'm talking about check through a Canadian history book.

Wen i clik link its writin upside down. plez help

I need entertainment. Get to the Enron hearings right now. I want to see witnesses suddenly struck dowm with mass amnesia. I want to see Dubya attempting to pronounce "executive privilege". I want to see James Carville doing psycho rants on talk shows. Canada? Blame Mulroney.

Let's step back into reality, shall we? Corporations have fucked up since the beginning of time, asking people to "take control back from them" are the views of a man who doesn't have a 9 to 5. People have to work, earn money, support families. As long as they have to do this, they need jobs, and large corporations are the ones that provide that. Wake up and stop with the idealistic college student routine.

Voting is overrated.

Which corporate/political/special interest whore do you want to put in office this year?

Enlightened Benevolent Dictatorship, Baby.

That's where it's at.

And when Mr. Wheaton (SIR!) finally seizes office, you know damn well where I'm going to be.

And it ain't Canada.

You know, I love the fact that one province (Ontario) can elect the ruling party of Canada. Screw us Westerners, screw the Maritimes and Quebec... as long as Ontario votes in a block the rest of the votes don't matter. Whee! My vote is so powerful. :-)

But then again, at least I do vote. I guess that gives me a right to complain, eh?

Blame Ontario!

Is there an Enron scandal? Yup. Will concerned citizens call for campaign finance reform and an investigation into the White House's close ties to Enron? Nope, not unless there's sex involved in it somewhere. I think the American people are scandal weary and the Enron mess is just too big for the average person to keep track of. As long as Bush is vowing to fight terrorism and "evil" the average American just doesn't care what's going on in Washington.

Wil, how did you come across that "help page?" That was great!

My greatest hope about Enron is that the "bystanders" in this can recover. So many of the people, the ones who just want, no need, to make an honest living-they are the losers in all this, and they didn't even have any way of protecting themselves from it. Enron workers lost their jobs, their retirement savings. Merchants of other businesses and services that depended on Enron and their people are also in big trouble. All because a group of executives at the top of the corporation wanted to add to their already inflated net worth.

Many of these regular people have worked so hard and now have nothing, and they couldn't do anything to prepare for it. They didn't look for other jobs, because they had no inkling they weren't going to have theirs. In fact they were told everything was all right. They couldn't adjust their retirement accounts because the execs prevented them from selling their company stock, all the better to keep stock options inflated until the execs could cash in first.

This IS what happens (more often than not) when the power and process is in the hands of a small group of exceedingly wealthy individuals. They take care of themselves at the expense of those underneath them. And the many of us that have a family to support and a smaller pool of resources to support them with will always be there to be exploited.

You could work harder than anyone in your area. You can have a unique skill or talent that no one else in your group has. You can have outstanding "performance reviews" in your personnel file. It doesn't matter. If you're in the wrong place when the corporation wants to maximize profit, you'll be on the street the next day, because that's corporate life in the world today.

Wow-did that come from me? Sorry to rant on like that! Next up?

the problem with our political process is NOT the money. it is that not enough people are involved in it. they ALLOW the wealthy and the corporations to get involved for them.

Blame Ontario!

Of course your vote is worthless.. you're Canadian...

Just kidding my favorite balding captain is from Canada..

Howard, no offense, but you're just plain wrong.

It's a given that the average person is both stupid and disinterested. This cannot be helped. There is too much cultural inertia keeping the american people in the same rut we've been riding for a long, long time. That is, of course, no reason for individuals to educate themselves and act accordingly. But it is unreasonable to even imagine that 250+ million people will suddenly achieve enlightenment.

Given the relatively small number of people who actually DO take an active role by voting, how many of them go to the trouble to educate themselves about the candidates? (Notice I don't say anything about the issues--in the US, issues are as fleeting as my gas on a windy day....) Though the real numbers can't really be known, I'd guess that less than 10% of people who vote make an effort to learn the candidates' backgrounds, etc.

Let's see... 10% of approximately 200 million eligible voters.... We're down to 20 million people with, being generous, half a brain. At the same time, there are approximately 80 million cattle who vote in the average election (presuming an optimistic 50% voter turnout), cattle (or was it sheep? I wasn't willing to put forth the effort to check the post-9/11 postings to be sure...) who are easily led by the nose by special interests and candidates bought by special interests.

Now, consider that those 20 million are spread across (roughly) 40 states or so. (I'm ignoring alaska, montana, idaho, canada, etc.) If they all lived in one area, maybe they'd be able to vote in a block and put a couple common-sense candidates into office and thereby start building some sort of a power base. Instead, they're spread too thin to do much of anything at a national level.

And as a result, we have people like BJ (officially, "Bush Junior....") who end up in office not because they receive the majority of educated votes, or even the majority of votes in general, but because people know how to manipulate the quirks of the american electoral system.

Now....

Who's up for that Enlightened Dictatorship?

Darn tootin' I'm registered, even gonna vote in the silly thing called the state election, not that it'll help, an idiot or moron will still get elected in my state...but...what can you do...lesser of four evils I guess....

JSc you raise a number of points, to bad none of them are any good.

Had Gore won the election (and boy would we be in SHIT now had he been) the electoral college would of been the best invention ever in your (and other bleeding heart liberals like our friend Wil) eyes. Did you know for the first time since the 1930's more Americans consider themselves Conservative instead of liberal? And you can thank all your favorite liberals for Americans shifting there views. Between blow jobs in the Oval Office, Whitewater Gate (you forgot that didn't you), the Enron Investigation which is bringing out more Democrats that have connections then GOP Members (Classic!), Americans are tired of all the self serving Liberal Democrats! We've seen what you have in your aresenal and the people haven't been impressed. The fact that Bill Clinton could of taken out Al-Quida and Osama multiple time in his eight years have further hurt the Liberals cause. Face the facts, all the old Dogma and stereotypes of the GOP are being erased and Liberals will finally be where they should be, a minority fringe.

DWD

The wealthy and corporations are allowed to get involved *because* of the money they provide. Which brings us back to Enron...

>> DWD

Wil's trying out a new ACME character.

That one's a keeper.

JSc just summed up why American democracy doesn't work better than anyone I've heard since my highschool government teacher (who now lives in Bahrain - no joke).

Despite the cold facts, I'll still vote in the next election simply because I'd feel stupid NOT voting and because my vote really can have an effect in local politics.

Wil, I like your site. I've been reading it for awhile now. I like the way you write. You express yourself well. As you can tell, I'm not much of a writer.

I disagree with campaign finance reform. I think that the current system is fair. If you tamper with it, then one side or the other will get an advantage. One citizen in this country has a small voice. Join a group, and then you have power. Some examples are AARP, NRA, and the Teamsters. Each of these groups have an agenda. Join what moves you. Restrict one group over another and thats not democracy. Each person and/or group in this country should be allowed to speak their minds using any amount of money they wish to spend to help get their views heard. Let the people decide if the views are valid or not. The only exception I would put on this would be foreign entities. There should never be foreign money ever involved in campaigns.

The Enron problem was caused by pure greed by some of the executives at Enron and Anderson. What do you think the President or Vice President had to do with it? NOTHING! Yes, they held an energy meeting. Yes, Enron was invited. If Enron wasn't there, then I would question "Why wasn't one of the largest energy companies there?"
Yes, meetings with the executive office should be kept confidenial. It's the only way a President can be effective in making policy. He might not get true information if everyone giving it to him sugar coated it for public review. My only exception would be if there was evidence linking the President to the crime.

I feel better getting that off my chest. I know my views are not popular, but I make sense. Think about it.

Do I detect a hint of resignation in some of these posts? If so, then the establishment or whatever you want to call it has won. Remember, it has always been in the best interest of the ruling class (be that the church, aristocracy, or an elected government) to keep everybody else as ignorant as possible.

Is this fair—of course not. Does this make it easy to change things—absolutely not. But is this reason or excuse enough to just give up or blame the system? Well, I guess you could blame the system since its function,afterall, is to protect those in power. However, blaming the system won't change it.

If we want to change the status quo, all of us have to get involved, informed, and educated. The current government/ leadership is a good example of what happens If the public remains uninformed and uninvolved.

By the way, that we are having this discussion shows that at least some of us care =)

DWD: "Had Gore won the election ... the electoral college would of been the best invention ever in your (and other bleeding heart liberals like our friend Wil) eyes."

I can't speak for JSc (who you were responding to), but myself and many other sensible people (non-conservatives) have disliked the electoral college all along.

The rest of your post is actually sort of funny; I'll assume you're just trying to get people upset, and save myself the trouble of a lengthy response.

I hope WWDN monkeys put as much effort into registering and voting as they do stuffing the ballot box for the Bloggies.

You know who you are.

No fucking excuse for missing an election.

None.

Americans are busy people?

Bullshit.

They have time to buy CDs, DVDs, and videogames at BestBuy.

They have time to watch NFL, NBA, NHL, NASCAR, figure skating, game shows, Star Trek marathons, Stand by Me for the 100th time, and ICQ their pals.

If you have been hit by a bus...

Or are currently being held hostage in the Philippines...

Or are chained to a wall in an Al-Qaeda cave...

Then MAYBE you have an excuse.

Otherwise, registering, voting, and staying informed are the absolute MINIMUM necessary to qualify as an American and a coherent human being.

It's not cute.

It's not funny.

"Gee, I'm so silly. I just don't have time to vote. Hee hee. Let's get tanked! Giggle."

Vote.

Vote, motherfucker, VOTE!

Sick of this shit...

DWD, if you take the time to read through some of the archived messages, and look at most of my old posts, you'll realize I'm anything but a liberal (read "democrat"). If you bother to read the soapbox, you'll see that my social views aren't particularly liberal, either.

That said....

The current disinterest in politics is not partisan. It is not purely conservatives/republicans or liberals/democrats that are losing interest in the electoral process and politics in general. It is a far more widespread phenomenon, most prevalent among younger groups (as is perhaps typical), many or most of whom have never had any party affiliation whatsoever. They are not rejecting a party. They are rejecting politics in general, with the recognition that they are not exercising their vote, but also the belief that attempting to exercise their voice will do no good.

Which then comes back to my previous post...

Re: andreas' post:

You're right, actually, that there is quite a bit of resignation in my first post re: special interests. I don't think you're seeing where that resignation actually fits into the bigger picture.

In my eyes, democracies have a major flaw. Although we're not a direct democracy in america, our republic has the same flaw. The most popular person (ignoring burps in the election system) wins office.

My personal belief is that the gross majority of people who have what it takes to become popular and hold that popularity do not have what it takes to run a country. Consider your high school elections for class officers. Who won? Certainly not the most intelligent or most qualified person in your class. Ten to one odds, no, thousand to one odds that it was someone who was part of the "in" crowd, and who did little if anything while in office.

Those high school elections are a microcosm of how the american political system runs. The most qualified and "best" candidate rarely wins. If they do, it's because they're running against someone who doesn't have the personality of your average pet rock.

That is a lot of why I quite seriously believe in the concept of an enlightened dictatorship. A properly-run communist state would be far preferable, really, but communism in the hands of humans is simply unworkable. I'd encourage anyone interested in history or unfamiliar with the concept of an enlightened dictatorship to read about the reforms implemented by Louis XIV in France, Metternicht in Austria, Frederick the Great in Prussia/Germany, and Catherine the Great in Russia.

Oh. And before anyone gets their hackles up, I've made it clear in the past that the gross majority of visitors to WW.N are smarter than the average bear.

Though there are of course exceptions.

Alright. I'll speak for the silent few too embarassed to admit it: I don't vote. Well, okay, I voted for president (and in doing so lost the county/state/federal... so glad I wasted my time). I ought to know my vote doesn't matter one whit in a military county. Mostly, though, I just don't care. Why? Because I've not seen my vote make one bit of difference. I voted the year I turned 18. It was very exciting. I boned up on the issues, attended a city council meeting, went to see my area Rep have a "town meeting" at my high school. I took on a stupid proposed law and educated everyone I knew all about it. I then went to the extra effort of getting to the assigned elementary school to punch the little cards.... You'd think I'd be proud of that. Now, I wonder why I wasted my time. The law I hated so much wasn't passed, the man I voted for became president... and I was excited. And then another election came up. The press virtually ignored it. There were the ads... but who believes those anyway? I never even knew what was on the ballot or even what the election date was. Because no one told me. And no, I didn't seek these things out when I could have. Because I just didn't know. And now? Well, now I see a billion things wrong with the government. And I know that I have no control over any of them. Because my beliefs are so very unpopular. Because people refuse to be reasonable when it comes to politics (try and tell me otherwise... blind loyalty is the word). And because I think everyone in politics are driven by greed, power, and fame instead of being honest people looking to make this country a better place to live in... economically, culturally, and even environmentally.

So, no, I don't vote. But, maybe some day I will again, probably in about three years. And maybe by then I'll get over my disappointment in our country. Or maybe not.

The fact that a citizen doesnt feel compelled to vote is good enough reason for me that they dont vote.

I usually vote but its my business if I do or dont and I can still complain if I want to either way. Theres no stipulation in the Constitution about losing any particular rights if you dont vote.

The only things that you are really requred to do as a Citizen is pay taxes and be available if they want you to go and fight in a war.

Whether someone votes is, for me, a sort of litmus test.

I don't care how attractive, funny, accomplished, or interesting one might be... if they don't vote, I have not one fucking word to say to them.

Like I said...

The minimum.

35 year-old virgin?

Yeah, I'll sit down and shoot the shit.

40 year-old without a driver's license?

No problem.

48 and still living with your mom?

Let's do lunch.

55 and never opened a checking account?

Okay.

Don't vote?

Get lost.

why wont someone hep me its still upside down

i could not agree with this more.

here in australia, voting in elections is compulsory, from local to federal.

however, that doesn't stop people from voting indifferently.

like, for example, not realising that it's a good idea to READ NEWSPAPERS for a couple of weeks prior to an election, even if you can't normally be bothered.

an example.

two years ago we held a national referendum to decide whether we, as a nation, should set ourselves on the path to becoming a republic. the key issue was whether we should replace our governor general ( the queen's representative, since we're a constitutional monarchy) with an australian head of state, who would probably go under the title of 'president'.

unlike the position of 'president' in the US, this official would not actually run the elected government; this role would remain with the prime minister. the 'president' would basically just slot into the same spot previously filled by the governor general (a largely rubber-stamp figure), the main differences being that it would be an australian, and we would loosen our grasp on the monarchist apron strings which, frankly, became anachronistic a long, long time ago.

[okay, okay, so you can see where my own allegances lie... that's not the point of this story, though...]

the point, my friends, is that no-one knew what they were voting on. NO-ONE. of my various brilliant, insightful and otherwise politically aware friends, NONE OF THEM bothered to read anything about the issue; not even the information on the actual referendum ballot itself.

consequently, almost everyone i know voted AGAINST the republic, when they are, in fact, FOR it.

how could this happen?

well, firstly, the ballot paper was a bit confusing. in addition to voting on the 'governor general/president' issue, we were also asked to vote for/against a 'preamble' to be inserted at the beginning of our constitution, comprised of dirge-like, uninspiring prose. horrible. no-one liked it. and therefore lots of people (who, again, didn't read the fricking instructions properly), thought that voting for a republic necessitated voting for this piece of trash literature. so that fucked it up. that was no accident, by the way - the ballot had been designed by a government fiercely attached to the monarchy.

the second thing that screwed it up was that EVERYONE seemed to assume that a president would naturally have more power than a prime minister. now i have no idea where this one came from, but it's simply not true. but again, highly intelligent friends of mine, days before the election, told me that they were voting 'NO', for this very reason.

and some people interpreted the use of the word 'president' as a symptom of USA cultural imperialism. like yet another dr. pepper ad with the statue of liberty taking over sydney harbour.

urgh.

i hate to say this, but if you (a) don't vote, or (b) don't inform yourself on the issues before casting your vote because you 'couldn't be bothered' or 'it doesn't matter anyway', you've essentially forfeited your right to complain about anything that government does to you.

you know what they say. if you're not part of the solution....

...you should go RTFM.

That RTFM link is a hoax. If you look at the address, you'll see the @ sign, which means that you ignore everything before that. The real URL is http://hardware.no/nyheter/feb01/Q209354%20-%20HOWTO.htm

Don't want to burst your bubble. I return you to your regularly scheduled political debate.

Re: Kelly V's coments

In a country where we have less than 50% voter turnout, I have to believe those who do turn out can pull things in their favor.

If you can rally others around you, you've just swayed things your way in an election with low turnout.

OK-granted that's a pretty pie in the sky view. It probably works better in smaller scale elections like city, county, etc, if at all.

But if you have some say in these issues, small or large, wouldn't you want to use what you have?

Look at all the people who come here with nothing to say, but just post something just to get involved here.

Why not do the same with voting?

i think i'd describe the ROTF page as satire, rather than a hoax. i don't think that anyone would really be fooled by that site, even with the microsoft logo et al.

One quick thing I forgot to explicitly mention before....

The US is, supposedly, a republic. In a republic, the citizens of a country choose who will fill political office. The role of the candidates is to make themselves available to be chosen. It is *NOT* to attempt to win at all costs.

Consider the analogy of free speech. One of the most important factors regarding free speech is that EVERYONE has the privelege to say whatever they want. Not just you, not just me, not just Mr. Wheaton (SIR!). All races, all ages, all sexes and all viewpoints are equal.

What does that mean? I'm sure you've heard it before--just as you have the privelege of being able to say whatever you want, the next person down the line has the privelege of telling you you're full of shit, and don't know what you're talking about. That is the essential nature of free speech, and is inseperable from the privelege.

In a republic, as mentioned above, the candidates are supposedly chosen by the people. From a technical standpoint, the candidates should have no interest whatsoever in whether or not they are elected--if the voters don't feel that a given candidate would best represent them, the candidate should, by all rights, sit the hell down and get out of the way for whoever IS elected. It's perfectly reasonable to represent the individuals who attempted to elect you and make sure that their minority view isn't forgotten or ignored. But the entire point of a republic is majority rule.

If you've read this far and aren't utterly lost as to what I'm attempting to say, congratulations. For anyone else who's just plain masochistic enough to have chugged through the morass of my ramblings, the big summary is below!

It wouldn't have mattered which candidate won the presidential election in 2001/2002. My entire point is not that I'm a liberal/democrat or a conservative/republican. Rather, my point is that the situation in Florida violated the most basic principle in a republic: Winning the office of president became more important to the candidates than what the majority of voters wanted. The second Bush and Gore took the election into court, they demonstrated that neither of them appreciates the most basic principles behind the concept of a republic--majority rule, and representation by the candidate of the public's choosing.

alternatively, of course, i could just proclaim myself emperor, appoint my horse as chief advisor, marry my sister, announce my ascention as a deity and sit around wait for someone to paint my figs with poison.

i mean, come ON. that's got to be better than a republic, right?

i promise bread, and i promise circuses.

who wants to come and be one of my 'little fishes?'

I voted in the '92, '96, and '00 presidential elections. I voted in all my local elections from 1990-2000. I have never voted Democrat or Republican, and no candidate I have voted for has ever won at least 5% of the vote. I may not vote in the '02 elections because it will probably be a waste of my time. I will not cast a vote for a candidate I do not believe in, and the ones I want to vote don't stand a chance.

Telling me I have to vote is a bunch of crap. I will still have the same right to bitch as everyone who does vote. Chances are though, I will only complain about the lack of choices.

Julia, the RTFM link is a hoax? Really? You mean microsoft doesn't normally have a link to Bestiality.net on its sight (upper right)? I suppose you're also saying microsofts' site doesn't normally use the "f" word. Wow. Thanks for your post. I was fooled. You saved me and many others from so much embarrassment, as we passed on the link thinking it was really a microsoft page.

"Anyone intelligent enough to run this country is going to be too smart to get into politics in the first place." -- Herman

I've lived in Alaska nearly all my life, from the time I was 2 until last summer when I moved to Seattle. I've voted in nearly every election I've had the ability to. I did this knowing full well that while my voted counted for the local issues, in a very real way it did not make one whit of difference in National elections due to the screwed-up system of the Electoral College (Alaska really _doesn't_ count, thanks to that - it would take a situation far screwier than the last Presidential election for our little state to swing anything one way or the other).

However, that notwithstanding, I still voted. Why, if I knew it didn't matter? Because it matters to me. I can't justify bitching, moaning, and railing against the way things are going if I make no effort to voice my opinion, even if my opinion may be lost in a sea of dissenting opinions (as they often are). And like Spudnuts, I don't feel that those who freely give up their right to vote have much say afterwards. It didn't matter to them enough to actually try to make a change, even if it may have seemed to be a futile effort? Fine then. Bye.

Funny thing, though. It may be hopelessly naive and idealistic, but I can't help thinking that if enough people would get off this stupid "It never matters if I vote" kick and actually _vote_ - then maybe it would matter.

RE: "The second Bush and Gore took the election into court, they demonstrated that neither of them appreciates the most basic principles behind the concept of a republic"

Actually its more correct to say that when Gore took it into the courts.

Gore and his people wanted re-counts in specific heavily democratic counties where they thought they would have an advatage.

Bush and his people fought this saying that it basically wasnt fair. They had the option to request a re-count of the entire state but declined to do so. All thier efforts were more responses.

Gores poeple, were also behind an effort to get some of the overseas military vote thrown out.

However, to say that going to the Judicial Branch of Govnernment is somehow not adhering to the Priciples of the Republic is wrong in itself. The Framers of the Constitution set it up so that the Judicial Branch should in some cases settle these kinds of disputes.

In a civlized country thats how we do it, we take em to court.

Independent counsel....Unfortunately that statute expired and was not renewed by Bill Clinton at the end of his term. So Bush (or the Democrats in congress) can't appoint an independent counsel even if he wanted to. At the time various people said that it should be renewed "just in case" but everyone was so sick of Ken Starr that they let it go. So now we have Enron and its going to be just like the Iran Contra deal. I'm just waiting for Bush to pardon himself (again).

Hey Wil,

Ya' know, when I was a kid I was such a geek. I actually registered to vote before my 18th birthday (you can sign up early, you just can't vote). Yeah. Well, 18 years later I am pretty cynical and disillusioned. Fortunately living in Canada (I don't get the Ontario voting comments though, if what Mandy said is true why the hell do they keep putting in French guys? I'll have to do some research on that one.)exempts me from having to vote in any local elections and since I am an American citizen I can't vote for anything in Canada.

I'll probably take some heat for this but I don't bother with the national elections any more either. Who do we choose? Dumb or dumber? I hate both the republican & democratic parties. I was tempted to vote for Ralph Nader (my mom just loves him), but in the end I didn't vote at all. Of course a little voice in my head keeps repeating this quote I came across, it goes something like this: "Those who refuse to get involved in politics are doomed to be governed by their inferiors". I'd have to agree, give me a candidate I can believe in.

I was just browsing through the comments and saw someone mentioned voter turn out of less that 50%. I read somewhere that it was about 20% of registered voters and that only about 20% of the population was registered. That's frightening, eh? I hope my info is wrong.....

fenaray said:

>> give me a candidate I can believe in.

Go find your own.

Listen.

The religious right is a minority.

Was.

And is.

But they didn't sit on their hands and lament the dearth of like-minded candidates.

They built them.

Or entered the races themselves.

Locally.

And then gradually marched up the ladder.

History is replete with small groups who through focus and zeal overwhelm the jaded and listless majority.

Happens every goddamned day.

I keep hearing this "I'll vote when the perfect candidate is delivered to my door with oven-warm chewy chocolate chip cookies and dairy-fresh whole milk and roses and some fuzzy slippers."

Hey.

I showed up for my first day of work and they didn't make me CEO, so I quit.

Is that how it works?

For no reason at all, I remember the first words I wrote that ended up on this website...

http://www.wilwheaton.net/greymatter/archives/00000023.php

Spudnuts-you are right on.

Keep in mind that while you whine about your vote being meaningless in the national politics, there are a number of local issues close to you that you vote on in the same election. These ARE things you can make a difference in. Maybe it's a school millage. Maybe it's funding for your local police and fire departments. These are things that affect you head on.

And while you're at it, maybe you can throw a vote in there for a congressman. It couldn't hurt. Who knows, the one you want for might actually win because of your vote.

If enough of the non-voters had gotten off their duffs and turned out in November 2000, maybe we wouldn't have had this whole Florida issue in the first place.

And while you're mulling over an election, why not get informed (like using that link Wil provided-it's a great place to start). maybe if you take the time to do a little research, you might actually find the candidate you believe in, instead of them finding you.

You got me.

There are, in fact, two things I will accept from non-voters:

1) Blowjobs

2) $1,000,000 (no less)

Aw shit...

Here we go with the weird-ass posting time thing again.

You know...I don't want to sound like a drag here...but reguarding the RTFM...a friend sent me that the other day...it wiped everything in my outlook express (yes, i know...shitty program, but it beats logging onto 3 different websites to check my mail)...

Oh...and did anyone notice the IP of the "person" who is featured in the RTFM page? ([email protected]) teehee!

""I think that, regardless of political ideology, we can all agree that the political process must be put back into the hands of the people, and taken away from wealthy individuals and corporations. "

I wholly disagree. Those with the money and the power have the natural (and completely legal) right to influence the government. Wil's statement here is typical of those who actually want to see the government influenced by the mere common person.

How anyone can claim their vote does not count not one year removed from the 2000 election is beyond belief.

Don't these people have a television, radio, or that Internet thing?

And do they use it only to Tivo episodes of Buffy or make moon eyes at Tiger Beat ex-Trek stars?

Have you any idea what kinds of issues are going to turn on the votes of maybe as few as FIFTEEN people in Florida?

Global warming.

Missile defense.

Privacy/civil rights issues.

There is a gaping chasm of difference between a Bush administration and a Gore administration.

Why don't you ask the populations of Asia, Europe, Africa if they think Dubya is any different from Gore.

Pick your side and stick to it.

Left or right.

That's fine.

But don't EVER fucking try to tell me there is no difference between the two.

I am rapidly losing patience here.

Seems to me that more effective than voting yourself is to get other people to vote for what you believe in. Of course, that means... you know... getting involved and knowing the issues and inform other people of what they should believe. Sheep, you know.

You know, it's a commonly held belief that complaining about something is much easier than doing anything about it. When you vote you're not issued a license to complain. "Oh, everyone else is stupid and I've done my part" well, if you feel so strongly about it... DO something about it. Clearly people aren't being properly informed about the issues or the candidates. "Oh, but it's not my JOB to do that". Hmm, well it's not my job to clean the toilet either, but if I don't do it... amazingly it doesn't get done and I have no room to complain. I have the tools and the time. So do you.

Lastly, Mr. I-have-nothing-to-say-to-non-voters... I believe you're a liar. I'm totally sure the first (or even 20th for that matter) thing you ask people is "did you vote"? I'm sure if someone said "Hey, I didn't vote but if you spend two hours talking to me I'll give you a million dollars" you'd shoot them a glare and walk away. What's that called? Oh, yeah, trolling. Nevermind.

Sounds like a nice idealistic world... Power in the hands of the hard working people... Unfortunately, the majority of people on planet earth are morons. It would be a disaster.

Troy,

According to your statatistics, chances are that You are a Moron.

Should you be allowed to vote?

http://www.moron.com/

You're hoping in vain if you think Enron is going to make anyone wake up. Republican administrations are inherently corrupt, IMO (I'm a registered independent), and Congress doesn't have the cajones to take Bush on. The media will obsess over this like they did Lewinski, and after awhile people will get so tired of hearing about Enron that they'll block the whole fiasco out of their minds. The only thing that can tittilate this warped society is yet another pointless sex scandal. As Condit and Clinton know, sex is the only thing that can get you into real trouble in Washington. Everything else is fair game.

Yes, let's blame the big corporations and the corrupt government because we can never expect people to use their brains and take care of themselves, right?

Ever hear the old saying: "Never put all of your eggs in one basket"?

I've turned down JOBS from companies that are ESOP or provide stock as a retirement benefit. What great political force forced all of these people to invest everything they made into one company?

eww

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