WIL WHEATON dot NET: 1.5

I agree with you about the guitar smashing, Wil. These yobbos who think they're angry like The Who don't realize that they're just custodians for these instruments until they get to the next musician. There are only so many old guitars around. What would SRV have sounded like if someone destroyed ol' Number One before it got around to him? It's in Jimmie Vaughan's vault for now, but some time in the future, someone else will get a chance to play it.

Excellent write up. Addiction sucks. I still listen to Nevermind in my 72 impala tape deck - in regular tape rotation after all these years...

Wil: Have you read Orson Scott Card's "Speaker for the Dead?" (Or maybe the whole Ender's Game series) Make some time for it if you can. I think that's what Kurt deserved more than eulogies and memorial services...

that was a really nice piece.

i remember hearing news of his death when i was 10 going on 11. my brother was one of the people greatly influenced by kurt, so i heard the music a lot and liked it myself. i agree that he may not have been the best musician, but the lyrics and the sound that was so new at the time was really something.

the unplugged album is in my top 5

I was never really a Nirvana fan, but I also think that Kurt was a beautiful writer. It would have been interesting to see what he would write with the music industry the way it is now with all the prepackaged sugar-soaked "goodness".

Wil,
Great story. Very personalized.

I just have to point out that you're such a computer geek that you spelled the "pearl" in Pearl Jam PERL. :)

Your transformation is complete, Wil. Misspelling "Pearl Jam" as "Perl Jam" is the final step in the journey from music junkie to computer geek.

Kurt's career should have been measured in decades, like Neil Young and David Bowie. Having met Courtney pre-Hole and having dealt with her post-Fame, I blame her for Kurt's death. Maybe she didn't pull the trigger, but if she really cared about anyone but herself, she would have gotten him help. As it was, she was chasing after Trent Reznor and Billy Corgan before Kurt's body was cold. I will never forgive her.

I don't mean to get all freaked on you, but being a Seattlite, there is more to this city than rain & Nirvana. Hello, a few little companies named Boeing, Microsoft, & Starbucks? And, if you want to talk music, how about Heart (oh yeah, forget I mentioned them), Quincy Jones, & a guitarist named Jimi Hendrix?!?!

I can't beleive anyone was talking about Kurt Cobain ten years ago and I can't believe anyone is still talking him ten years later.
He's often mentioned in lists of names like John Lennon, Sid Vicious, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, even Karen Carpenter. If only he was in the same league as someone like that.

I gotta tell you. I'm 43 years old and just "discovered" Nirvana LAST YEAR. The kid did have brilliant insight. It's sad that he couldn't overcome the profound pain of depression. Depression is what killed him, not his wife or dreams coming true. The kid was born depressed, it's a wonder he survived long enough to achieve as much as he did. Don't laugh---but I also hear a lot of Beatles influence in his music, too.

Excellent entry, as per usual.

Kurt Cobain symbolized our generation perfectly - eloquently wasted, raw not cooked, torn between activism and futility. The struggle we have faced and survived killed him, for being unable to separate the way he thought things should be from the way they actually were. He couldn't live with the contradiction inherent in that conflict, and he allowed the weakness of his failing to cause him to behave in a weak and cowardly manner.

Still, his words live on, and he represented (and represents still) a generation of the disaffected, young people who always felt not as if they didn't fit the mold, but as though the mold didn't fit them, and should be broken.

"All in all is all we are..."

10 years. I remember the news of his death like it was yetserday.
The day I heard he died,I drove down to Kalino's Pub, walkman in hand with Unplugged in the deck and repeatedly listened to "All Apologies" and "The Man Who Sold the World" over and over while downing more than a few beers. I was shocked by the reality of it all. I also,in a weird way, wasn't too surprised because it was no secret he was self destructive but I didn't expect him to blow his fucking brains out. I truly feel we lost an icon in '94 and have yet to find one in the present. Like Abby, I wonder what he would make of all this sugar coated goodness passing for music today. If he hadn't blown his brains out then, he surely would have today.

I never liked Nirvana much, one or two songs when they came on the radio was enough for me. Never having dealt with any addiction of any kind (I quit cigarettes and caffiene with no problems) I just don't get junkies. I have no sympathy for people who insist on killing themselves slowly with drugs. Wanna hear intelligent, insightful music? Listen to Operation:Mindcrime by Queensryche.

Wil,

I like the writing, but I'm gonna have to disagree on a couple things. First of all, saying Curt Cobain was not a great musician is not true. Just because he was not a virtuoso guitarist or the chord structure of his songs were not incredibly sophisticated does not mean he was a hack as a musician. He did write all those great melodies, melodies that made his sub-par singing voice sound great, as well as being catchy and with tons of emotion engrained in them. It takes a certain genius to be able to do that. After all, most Beatles songs are not that complex or hard to perform, but they are brilliant anyway. I do not compare or equate him with the Beatles at all, but he could write a great melody, that's for sure. And there are not too many people today who can, sadly enough.

Second, to say without him there would be no Soundgarden or Pearl Jam is not the case. Soundgarden was touring and creating grunge long before Nirvana ever formed. As a matter of fact, Nirvana knew and looked up to them a lot before either of them "made it". Smells like teen spirit was the first big hit for grunge, but Soundgarden was around since '85. Not to diminish Nirvana, I'm just a Soundgarden fan who wants to set the record straight. Anyways, that's my 2 cents on it.

P.S. - What would Kurt have to say about britney spears and all this other crap like it? I can only dream. We need another revolution to get rid of all this like Nirvana did to the hair bands.

Perhaps the people at Black Table.com felt that your article was too direct and truthful for them to not have it published. Not everyone wants a sugarcoated article. I am not a fan of Nirvana per se, but I do enjoy some of their songs. I'm not about to go into a tangent about why he committed suicide, but just to say, Wil, sometimes people cannot handle the truth.

nice, i was hoping you'd mention something about him today wil. the world lost a legend 10 years ago... his legacy continues to grow with each passing day. here's to his sweet angel of a daughter, frances bean finding more happiness than he ever could.

oh, and i in NO way mean to nitpick i just want to fully appreciate what could be a tongue in cheek comment. :) wil, did you know that pennyroyal tea is an herbal drink meant to induce labour? (for abortion)

Just a quick comment: I would wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment that without Nirvana there would be no Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, etc. Soundgarden, for instance, existed before Nirvana and had quite a large following not only throughout the local Seattle scene but across the country thanks to Sub Pop's backing. Nirvana's instant fame after the release of Nevermind did force the eyes and ears of critics and major labels (along with a lot of newfound fans) to the Seattle music scene but I would venture to guess that even if Nirvana had never existed these other bands would have been successful since they are comprised of very talented songwriters and musicians.

Thanks for sharing Wil.

IIRC, both Green River (half of which went on to form Pearl Jam after Andy's death,) and Soundgarden were around before Nirvana. Also Kurt acknowledged Green River as an influence. I would feel comfortable saying that without Green River, Pearl Jam or Soundgarden, there would have been no Nirvana, but definitely not the other way around.
I remember some people claiming that Kurt Cobain was "the John Lennon" of our generation. What a bunch of malarkey. That is such a put down for John. Nirvana were nowhere near as important musically as the Beatles.
It is sad that he is gone, but I'm not sure how much he is missed.

I'm not a fan of Nirvan so have no comment on Kurt as a musician but it is always sad when someone young ends their life. Writing as you did about his addiction and his music was a nice tribute but if you ever publish the article to may want to think of including the comments you recived on your post and the story behind them - to me that is also part of your tribute to him.

just my 2 cents

Thanks for sharing your "unpublishable" (did I just make up a word?) article with us. I've never been particularly into Nirvana, but I like the music I've heard. I wasn't personally affected by Cobain's suicide, and he wasn't the voice of my personal generation. I'm not distraught that he will never write another song, or wear another dress or cover himself with Christmas garland before an interview. What pisses me off most is that he left behind a wife (and I'm making no judgements about their relationship) and a daughter who never got the chance to know her father.

And I just realized that I've outlived him.

:stepping off soapbox:

Which band came first, or how popular they were in Seattle isn't the point. I'm not saying that Nirvana influenced anyone.

Until the music industry noticed Nirvana, the Seattle Sound was as underground (and, more importantly, commercially unproven) as Emo was until the music industry noticed Dashboard Confessional.

Pennyroyal Tea was an herb used to induce abortion. That was important to the context of the song. That's why he didn't sing about Chamomile or Orange Pekoe.

Wherever he is, I hope he's happy. I doubt, though, that he's sipping pennyroyal tea.

Nice entry, Wil. I was 14 or so when Cobain died, so I remember it vividly. Just a few short months after we lost River. It shook my little teenage world.. I was reminiscing a few months ago about the days of Nirvana and my youth and wrote a little poem. Here I post it, in memory of Kurt.

"Ear Porn"

Used to sit alone for hours
Pondering this and that
Writing this and that
Memorizing unforgettable lyrics
Writing some of them down on walls
In pencil, mind you, so mother wouldn't yell.
But love them all, I did
Alone in the world
In my town
In my school
The music was all.
My release, my professor, my counselor
My spiritual advisor, my lover.
It is timeless, limitless
And it continues to surprise my senses.
Rock on, world
Give me some more
Of that precious ear porn.
Turn me on
Make me pissed
Give me something to believe in
That really deserves it
Rock on,
Tortured prophets of song.
May you find solace in screams
And eternally wailing bend notes.

~Diane Marie Rosalie

I wonder if the band would be as infamous if he hadn't committed suicide. Truth be told, they probably would've fizzled out long ago. All I can ever think of is that he was a heroin addict who killed himself and left his child behind with a drug-addict skank.

Then again, we all do make mistakes.

Kurt's death occured on my birthday.. I don't know what that means to me, really. I was 17 when it happened and Nirvana just blew up as I had entered high school. Nirvana's music got me back into rock as opposed to pop and all that other crap that was out at the time. Remember the music scene in 1991? It was quite depressing until SLTS came out.

I'm from Seattle, and i remember the day they found his body. It was a sad and rainy day, when we lost the father of grunge rock and Nirvana in one brief moment. And ten years later its still gray and gloomy and we are still talking about Curt. And Nirvana is being played all day on several radio stations. The sounds of Nirvana and Curt will never go away. Curt (the human being) maybe dead, Courtney maybe strung out on drugs and missing court dates, and Francis Bean may be asking where's Mommy? But Nirvana will live on in Seattle, the birthplace of grunge.

God bless you Curt, and please someone find some help for Courtney, before Francis Bean looses both parents.

P.S. For anyone in the Washington area, there will be a memorial service this afternoon @ the Seattle Center, and also a gathering near Curt and Courtney's former residence.

So i misspelled Kurt's name im sorry, and please don't shoot me.

I was wondering why I felt so melancholy today. Yesterday was my son's 10th birthday. I had forgotten about the other anniversary that follows. My son was born the day before Kurt died and it hit me hard in the middle of post-partum blues. I didn't like Nirvana at first, either. Over the years, however... they definitely filtered into my soul. I saw them on New Year's Eve when I was six months pregnant. I will never forget Kurt Cobain ... even though my mind had not consciously reminded me of this day. I'm glad you did, though. Thanks.

You know I think the REAL reason you didn't get included was because of your honesty and the fact that you did not just blindly sing the praises of Kurt Kobain... I may be wrong about that, but I am afraid that it was more about building him up as a legend once again to increase sales of his music yet again than anything else..
okay maybe I am a little jaded, but that is the way I see it.
I applaud your honesty, and the fact that you combined the bad with the good and came back with a sincere piece of writing that is definately worth the read.

i have the utmost respect for music, and yes i do feel that it openned a lot of people up to a different genre of music.

I doubt we can all say we are proud of everything we have done in our lives and that theres not one thing we would change! Kurt was a musician, as was John Lennon both artists both troubled.

John Lennon who is now dubbed a legend and musical genuis and yet he was an average guy... working class hero.. he had troubles of his own, he took drugs and he had a love/hate relationship with Elvis and the U.S government...

now we name an airport after him and Maccas trying to live off his glory.. cause lets face it he's not that great is our paul!!

We forget those who died, true working class heros, and we forget the people that fought and died for something they believe in.... life is funny...

These musicians gave us something and left us a legacy, either way you can be positive or negative about it... i'm glad kurt touched the world, he gave us a lesson and hopefully we can learn from it and his music will live on, whether or not it would have fizzled out had he lived, his music was great and we should remember that.

andrea x

OK, here comes the whacko.
I honestly believe that Kurt was murdered.
This opinion, more often than not, garners scorn and derision. But before you go that way, research it. Just because he was an angry guy who seemed suicidal, does not make suicide a forgone conclusion. And there are a plethora of inconsistancies and errors in the events surrounding his death.

Anyhoo. I also agree with Wil on the point that, without Kurt, there would be no Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, et al. That's not a who-came-first proclamation. Nirvana opened the door, focused the attention of the world, and the record companies on Seattle. So I suppose, more accurately, without Kurt, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, et al, would not have had the successes they did, when they did.

Tragic waste.

There is no doubt that Kurt was a polarizing force for the grunge music/movement. Can you think of the music that was listened to on the radio pre-Kurt. He certainly deserves the right to be mentioned with John Lennon, Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison for he too changed music forever. Here is to you Kurt.

Wil—and anyone who wants to know more about Cobain and his life—you should read Heavier than Heaven by Charles R. Cross. It's the best biography on Cobain I've ever read, possibly the best ever published, and definitely the best researched: Cross had access to Kurt's journals, interviewed a lot of people close to him, and presents a clear and mostly unbiased view of the man's life and death.

I have mixed feeling about Kurt Cobain. On one hand he did influence a looser style of music playing as well as having more poetic lyrics. On the other hand, his influence was a detriment to the concept of musicianship. The 90's were filled with detuned guitars, bleak lyrics with singing and instrument playing that seemed like the musicians were half-hearted. The grunge sound, while trying to overcome the clichés of the 80's, with its narrow focus, became a cliché ridden style by the mid 90's. It's one of the reasons I do not consider Nirvana's music timeless, and it is one of the reasons I do not regard Kurt Cobain in the same league as Jimmy Hendrix or John Lennon. Kurt Cobain did have talent however, and it would have been nice to see how his music would have evolved.

Oh my god I am so sick and tired of hearing about these bands and these artists who died from drugs before their time. If they killed themselves with a shotgun or with a herion overdose then to hell with them. How many bands have one or two albums then retire to obscurity. It's real nice to give the dead the benefit of the doubt that they MIGHT have made more albums but they DIDN'T. They flaked out and killed themselves and as long as we make all of these losers out to be great then drugs stay cool.
It is always a tragedy when someone dies but when they die because they can't handle success then how are those of us who trudge away our lives just dreaming of such excess supposed to have pity for them because they have gotten too rich?
Personally, I never thought alot of Nirvana. I mean they were ok but just ok. The other bands such as Pearl Jam were better imho. Just because Nirvana was first doesn't mean it was the best. Any of those other bands could have been the spark that started that fire so to speak.

Just remember that opinions are like arseholes.
We all have one.

That was awesome what you have written about Kurt. Right with out Kurt you would not have most of the bands that we listen today so hats off to Kurt and his band. Even though he couldn't handle the fame he did leave us a lot of songs to listen too.

I listened to his music, I had friends who tried to live his life. I honor him for his honesty, but worry about the message he has sent. I now am confused, this whole murder mystery thing is kind of pissing me off. Did he really kill himself? Did courtney do it in a drug fueled haze, to promote herself. She has benifitted more than anyone.

You're a great writer, but I think writing something like this is new to you. It doesn't speak quite the way your other writing does. Still very good, though. I think you're just new to this style, and not very confident about it yet. That could be why it was cut. Don't let it discourage you, though...it's not often that the first time you try something, it's the best you'll ever do it. :)

Sorry you missed your article deadline. It was a good one. I miss Kurt Cobain and it's scary how much Francis Bean looks like him. I still wonder if Courtney did him in. Even if she didn't I wouldn't put it past her.

Although I was never into Kurt Cobain while he was alive, I've grown to admire and respect his music and message, as well as the whole garage band scene known as "grunge."

It's also nice that Seattle can claim something for themselves other than Microshit and Starbuck$.

i too wanted to comment on pennyroyal tea being an abortifacent, but i see others have beaten me to it.

i enjoyed the article as a whole--i was never overwhelmed w/kurt cobain like everyone else was either--but i do want to say, hey, what's wrong w/(boy) rock stars who wear dresses? combined w/smashing vintage guitars & having an attitude, all right... but i just wanted to put in a good word for all the perfectly respectable & cute boys-in-dresses out there. :)

This is one of the best post-article discussions I have read here in a while. I am glad everyone has shared a little bit. Helps to feel some kinship with others who reflect the pain.

Yes, I remember exactly where I was when I heard it. I grew up in Tacoma and a friend of mine was friends with Kurt. I got to hear them back in 1988, but I didn't appreciate it then. It took a long while for me to feel what was going on in his music. I moved to L.A. at the same time as grunge was spawned in my birthplace. It sorta washed over me in a gangsta haze.

When River died and then Kurt, my mortality first became apparent to me. Here were hallmarks of my era, icons who I could look up to, spent on a sidewalk or with a shotgun. It really made me feel for the first time in my life that I was not indestructable. That was a big step in my life as I was 23 and on top of the world.

Anyhow, I miss them both. As pennies are flying in pairs around here I have to say that I feel that Kurt's songwriting was amazing. Hell, You know you're right came out a couple years ago and blew me away - after years in the vault. It wasn't just his addiction either. He had a stomach ailment that was excruciatingly painful. He lived in pain most of his life - and not just because of the drugs.

I also heard from a friend with a relative on the Seattle Police Department who was close to the case and all I will say is that the detective felt that it was not a suicide.

Beauty in life is fleeting and having our dreams come true isn't necessarily the key to happiness. Wil, I admire that you have carved a new niche for yourself and you have balanced writing, family and celebrity in a way that does bring you happiness. No one can answer why Kurt's balance brought him pain, but I take from this memorial that life should be cherished and the beauty of his art should remind us to be careful what you wish for because you have to live with it.

Rest in peace Kurt.

I think you hit the head on the nail with most of the points you made. I also want to echo the sentiment that if you haven't read the Ender series you should try to make time for it. This article kinda parallels an idea that arose at the end of the first book about honoring the dead. Anyway, good job, I'll have to see about setting some money aside to buy your book, I love your writing style. I think I'll go grab a Guiness now, cheers.

I have read a lot of arguments for both sides of the Cobain as legend argument. As a lifelong John Lennon freak, I don't know if Cobain is on par. I do think, though, that he did give voice to all of us frustrated Northwestern kids--most of us taught from a very early age that working at the local IP mill was the best we could expect. Every generation is frustrated in some way, and every generation has it's "voice." (Okay correct punctuation has never been my strong point) I went to high school in the Northwest when "Grunge" became en vogue. I can tell you why we wore flannel before it became color coordinated and why our feet were housed in Doc Martens (or similar footware after Docs became far too expensive for a bunch of faded blue collar kids to afford). I went to high school with kids who thought Garth Brooks was the second coming and who warshipped the idols of Wrangler and Skol. I can tell you what made a band who came from freakin' ABERDEEN such a phenomenon....at least to us.

I forget where I first heard this metaphor--but somebody wise once told me that life is a metronome. It swings one way, hits it's mark and then swings back the other way. For those wondering what Kurt would think of all the Pop Candy out there today, I say that without Kurt and the "Grunge" movement (goddman Melrose trend labellers. Did nobody realize the functionality of flannel and docs?) we wouldn't HAVE the Pop Candy we have now, or the New Alternative happy garage stuff. Be patient. Pretty soon there will be a new voice coming out of this Ear Crack that says "Screw This Noise" (pun not intended but still amusing) and makes something more....whatever adjective or noun you feel fits. I won't say Real because to some, Justin Timberlake is the voice of a generation. I find that horrific, but to each their own.

Some say that had Kurt not died Nirvana would have not become the "legend" it is today. To them I ask that time honored question "Is it better to go out with a bang or would you just rather fade away?" Would you rather keep your idol or have him turn into Rex Manning?

Kurt's no Ian Curtis.

Wil, perhaps the thing that bothers you about the destruction of classic guitars is the same thing that bothers most people about suicide. The senseless waste of it all. We express that loss as anger, hate, disappointment, denial, rationalization or just plain sadness.

The promise of a fully-lived life is never realized, and the heritage of those guitars is never fulfilled. We all lose something.

that was an O.K. piece.
but does anyone think that kurt cobain really cared whether or not we liked his music or him or his covers of meat puppets songs? he didn't, he just wanted to get fucked up and make fucked up music and trash whatever he wanted. see i think that he knew the real truth, it doesn't matter and were all going to die anyways. i don't think he deserves a ten year anniversary eulogy, he is probably grimmacing about it in heaven or hell or wherever he is. lots of music has changed my life, i think it matters when it's quite personal, not blown up in your face by magazines and television and suicide. i love nirvana's music, but i think that sometimes people don't look past the glamourized suicide and popularity and "antics" and love nirvana what they were really out there for. pure fucking noise.

i thought your piece was well written...and from a little different point of view than most i have seen on the topic of KURT COBAIN...and i think you are right...NIVANA was the breakout band that put SEATTLE on the map for music fans...'til then SEATTLE was know by me mostly as the home of major league baseballs ill-fated PILOTS.

what are you talking about with the guitar comment? cobain played guitars no one else wanted when he started - jap jaguars and mustangs that were pawn shop specials - he has made the value of these jump 10-20 times because that's what nirvana played. no one was crying when he was smashing these up on stage, of course now they do, because if he hadn't smashed so many they would be auctioned on ebay now, going to the highest bidder.

cobain did form attachments to special vintage guitars over the years, and it seems did not intend to ever smash many of them. but, if you read livenirvana.com, HTH (book) and Come as you are (book) you find that because of intense emotion onstage, anger, drugs, or a combination of all the above he HAD to smash the guitars. That is what made him so f'in great.

Plus, many say that the loss of his favorite guitar (and notebooks) in the "bathtub incident" led to seriously diminished songwriting rates (just a theory but plausible).

But sorry, willie, but who the fuck cares if you are outraged about him smashing some guitars? you are the kind of pretentious prick who i have a feeling cobain would hate.

68.155.14.21

My brother was the king of "Grunge", and was a big fan of Kurt. He went to all the Nirvana concerts that he could. One day he trapped me in his car and forced me to listen to "Smells like teen spirit." It was not a bad song, so I listened to it. That was my first experiance with Nirvana. In 1995 my 18 year old brother died in a car accident. When we cleaned out what we could from the car, I grabbed his tape deck. The last thing he was listening to was "Smells like teen spirit." I miss him so much, he was my best friend, and while I am not a big fan of Nirvana, I enjoy that particular song. Had it not been for my brother I would have never listened to anything by Nirvana/Kurt Cobain. I am not really sure how to end this...maybe saying this...

"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal."
-Albert Pike

Guitars can be replaced. Life cannot. KC had no respect for his own life. Why should I?
Tortured artist- feh. I have more respect for a one hit wonder, who winds up digging ditches than someone who tosses in the towel while they have the world by the short hairs.

Will, your article did make me think, but,try as I may, I cannot resolve myself to accept suicide.

Jim Infantino said it best (here):

For your sake I hope there is no afterlife
don't look down, don't look down
so you don't see the mess made of you suicide
don't look down, don't look down

I hope there are no radios where you are
cause you don't want to hear what's going on
cancel all your magazine subscriptions
now

somewhere Jimmy Morrison's explaining it
and somewhere there's a talk show being born
and somewhere we're already sick to death of it
yeah

Mom said it was the heroin that did it
newspapers say it was the fame
I say it was the shotgun what's the difference
there won't be another album
shame

somewhere you got someone reading Hemmingway
and somewhere there's a teenager to frown
and somewhere a boy drags guns out of the river
yeah...
don't look down

A couple things about your article are off-base IMHO.

a) musicianship is a helluva lot more than chord structure.
That's like me saying that writing is just stringing together sentences.

Kurt's stature among fellow musicians to this day speaks for itself.

b) Pearl Jam, Soundgarden et al were doing just fine before Nirvana. In no way do they owe their existence to the grunge explosion, as they all pre-date it, and were in fact moderately famous by then (witness SG on MTV in '89, Pearl Jam as Mother Love Bone)

c) destroying a guitar onstage comes not from stupidity, nor from not knowing the intrinsic value of the instrument. On the contrary....

Please be aware of what a bright powerful musical presence that Kurt and Nirvana were. Owing much to their predecessors, particurlarly Lennon and Townshend to be sure, not equally their achievements, but that's not to say he couldn't have.

Heya Wil --

I'm a newbie to the whole wwdn world, and so have been catching up on your life, reading backwards through your blog. Of course, I'm doing this at work, so it's slow going -- you know, having to flick back to work-related windows whenever someone walks by.

Anyway, when I read your post today, I noted that this is at least the second time I read of an article you wrote not being published because you've missed a deadline.

There's a little philosophy that goes a little something like, "There are no accidents."

I read your article about Cobain, and then I went to the BlackTable site and read the articles that made the cut. I'm of the opinion that if you'd made that deadline, you would have seen your article on the page -- Not the best one, but far far far from the worst.

Remember when you're writing these articles, that you are a bone-if-eyed published writer (My Amazon order has been processed, thank you very much). Not that I'm complaining about getting to read the article from your blog, but I'd much rather see it over at BlackTable, so "everyone will point and laugh at [the other writers], and then [they'll] burn us all up at the prom while John Travolta dances with Nancy Allen."

'Scuse me whilst I go IMDB "Nancy Allen".

Wil,

This comment is off topic but I feel it may be worth mentioning. On your webpage for first-time-readers you say "I passionately believe in freedom from religion." This being Holy Week for both Jews (Passover) and Christians (The Passion of the Christ) we would appreciate hearing a few of your ideas on religion. I'm sure you would get tons of comments.

Thanks so much. Freeman :)

How do you even know *who* Leonard Cohen is?

Wow, someone else in this world says meh?! Not that I thought I was the only one, but I just thought it was a localized phenomena. How cool that a guy like you knows the word "meh." (It's the little things in life.) We got it from the Simpsons (Lisa to be exact). Anyway, good post, I enjoy reading your site. The book is on order from Amazon and i am excited to get it.

I've never listened to Nirvana. I've never had the least bit of interest in learning about Kurt Cobain... but it still feels sad to hear about someone so influential who loses their life in such a way. 10 years? Wow.
I was reading all those articles in Black Table about him and I thought maybe I should just go and buy a Nirvana album after all...

I always heard that last line of ALL APOLOGIES as "All alone is all we are." Is it really "all in all is all we are"?

Oh well, at least I'm the pompatuse of love. (weoh weoh!!)

Your sentiments about how Kurt's antics affected what you thought of the music is interesting. I always got the feeling that Kurt would have been just as happy without videos and fame, and would rather have people appreciate the music.

eMpTV is all about image and less about substance, which is probably one of the reasons we have Boy bands and Titney Spears. I don't think Kurt could handle the fame. Look at the comments (no offense to the posters). They say "Kurt was an icon," "Kurt was like John Lennon". I can just imagine some fanboy or girl in the early 90's saying, "Kurt's just soooooo bitchin." I think someone told him he could make some money from his music, but if they had told him how much his life would change, he probably would have told them to shove it up their a$$.

Along a similar line (somewhat) I read an anecdote about a aide came up to Julius Ceasar and told him that the people had declared him a god and were building temples in his honor. Exasperated, he said, "What am I supposed to do when someone prays to me to cure their gout?"

Anyway, don't believe the hype ;-) If you like music, does it really matter what the band looks like? The substance of music is aural, not visual.

Wil,

Honestly, this was not your best work. Maybe because you had little passion for the man's work, it seems forced. Though edging on way personal, I think it would have been much more appropriate for you to write something about River Phoenix than Kurt Cobain.

I liked Nirvana from the start when I heard it. I could also sympathize with a man who openly admitted to horrible things in his past he was trying to get through. At the same time, I feel awful he is only remembered for 1) killing himself 2) his stupid unplugged songs 3) marrying the whore of the music industry.

I hope I don't offend you, but the article you wrote did little to shed light on a topic, as you normally do. There was no fresh viewpoint, and that's what I love about WWdN.

Here's to your journey as a writer. And a small prayer for Frances Bean Cobain, that she find only more happiness and peace as she gets older.

anc, why would wil not know who leonard cohen is? i'm not too much over half wil's age, and i listen to cohen's music...did that comment have some kind of deeper meaning i didn't understand?

Hi Wil

For what it's worth, I think if you'd have started your piece for the magazine with a topic(thesis) paragraph, you would have greatly increased your chances of being included....your sentiments about Cobain's life, attitude, and music, and how his addictions colored those things, were heartfelt, poingant,and insightful-as your best writing always is--but I think they were buried to deeply in the piece. Your first paragraph is a very good second paragraph. This, of course from someone who's never been paid to write to someone who has, so.....like I said, FWIW

Personally, I'll be glad when Kurt is finally forgotten. Yes, he brought around a new sound in music, but so did Hanson, Alanis and even Miss Spears. The only difference between these singers and bands is the fact that one couldn't cut it and took the pussy's way out and the others are still here.

I have no idea what it is like to be so drugged up and so lost and confused that you think death is better than living and I hope I never do, but no one forced him, including the music industry. If it was so bad, he could have quit and lived his life as a regular person. Killing himself was selfish for so many reason's. He had a wife who loved him, a daughter he would never see grow up and millions of fans who idlized him. Yet somehow, it wasn't good enough for him. All of his money, all of the love he got from family and fans wasn't good enough.

Let the man go for God's sake. It's been ten years. Nirvana is done and over with, they aren't make new music and even if they did, they wouldn't have Kurt so it wouldn't be the same. Kurts gone and so is Nirvana. It's time to move on.

Wil, it's good to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't idolize Cobain. Being bipolar and having survived suicidal impulses, I've got a bit of sympathy for him, but little respect. He could afford to get good help, as so many people I know can't. Instead, he turned to drugs, and then killed himself. Purely aside from being fairly indifferent to his music, I can't respect that in anyone.

In addition to being an abortifacient, as others have mentioned, pennyroyal is toxic in large doses (part of what makes it an abortifacient). It also tastes and smells dreadful, like a rancid mint. Not something that makes a pleasant sipping beverage.

Oh, and Michael Hawkes, that particular anecdote about Iulius Caesar is completely false, as Caesar was declared a god after his death. It wasn't until Caligula, the first Mad Emperor, that living men were declared gods.
Caesar was, however, a more modest man than many in his position would have been. He refused to crown himself king of Rome, abhorring the notion despite a fair amount of popular support for it. He once emerged from the Senate (I believe) to find a crowd chanting "Rex! Rex! Rex!" at him, rex being Latin for king. He happened to have a cousin whose name was Rex, and so protested, "I'm not Rex, I'm Caesar," pretending that the crowd had merely mistaken him for his look-alike relation.

Penny Royal Tea was used by women to induced spontaneous abortions, lets hope he's not sipping it. I lived Seattle's grunge lust, I'm sorry your artickle didn't make the list though. LONG LIVE KURT COBAIN, his antics are what makes ROCK n' ROLL one of America's greatest mythologies.

Respectfully,
Cupie xoxo :)

Some of us were sitting around the lunch room chit-chatting. I asked this question of the group. "When did you feel the most courageous in your life so far?"

The answers varied from person to person.

"When the ferryboat I was on sunk one night, and I swam the river in the dark to shore" -- An Ohio geek, I never thought had THAT in him.

"When I was shaking, laying on the gurney getting ready to have my one good eye operated on, knowing I had elected this surgery." -- A woman faced with partial blindness since birth.

"Choosing to live after my girl friend left me." -- a devoted older brother who had gone to the motel room to gather the personal things of his younger brother who had killed himself. So easy to make the same choices.

"Apologizing to my mother for being a brat after not speaking to her for 8 years." -- A woman seeing her own mother grief stricken on an airplane going to her grandmother's (mother's mother's) funeral.

So, I say that Kurt Corbain did not have courage to live the life we was given and what he made of it. Pain can do terrible things to you. It can cloud all your thought processes. I hope that others won't look to him as a role-model. Many lives are being lived with courage. Too bad it wasn't his.

Kurt Cobain: Still the world's most famous...

Statistic.

Sorry, can't like anything about the man.

"It's like saying I'm heterosexual but sitting on a butt plug as I write this."

Oh my ! /Takei

Funniest thing, ever.

I happen to like woman who rock.

But Kurt smashing old guitars? That's like ripping up the bible in front of a church.

It's bound to piss people off.

Ok he smashed 'em. They are gone, what of it?

It might be better if they wore out through use.

But worse if they were sitting in a vault somewhere collecting dust.

Nothing is forever.

Back in December I was mourning for another musicain who also committed suicide 10 years ago, but he wasn't appriciated as much as Kurt. Although I think he should be.

His lyrics speak of depression, drinking, obsession, and, looking back, even small hints of suicide.

"Is there a line that I could write that's sad enough to make you cry? All the lines you wrote to me were lies."

"But you wanted to be where you are
But it looked much better from afar"

Sometimes the world just sucks.

sigh

wil,
I can see why maybe your article didn’t get published, I think some of the people who have posted have already said that it isn’t paying homage to Kurt Cobain it detracts from the legend so to speak. It also lacked emotion IMHO, that’s not to say it was bad though. Just to go a teensy bit off topic here...

Reading through the comments posted so far has opened my eyes to what a taboo suicide really is. I can’t comment about Kurt Cobain, speculating why he did it, what made him kill himself would do no good. No amount of that will bring the man back.

But, the attitude that suicide is a selfish act is unequivocally wrong. I’ve been through depression; I’ve also had two episodes of feeling suicidal. I’ve come out the other end, and I can honestly say that for me I wasn’t feeling selfish. Quite the opposite, I thought I was a burden to my husband, that I was a constant problem in his life. The fact that he loved me as much as he does now and had never thought of me as a burden didn’t matter because all I saw when I looked in the mirror was inadequacy. Now to all the people who are up in arms that Kurt left behind a daughter, has it ever crossed your mind that maybe he didn’t want to be a burden to her?

Suicide is not something that should be judged, the person who is dead has probably done all the judging they need by deciding to end their life. If we stopped judging and just tried to understand each other a little better, in every way, then maybe we wouldn’t be in such a mess?

Just some thoughts...

I remember knowing about it. I don't think I knew who he was. I knew it was big, important. I don't know what I was listening to back then, as I was 12. Maybe whatever rock station my dad had on in the car. Fuzzy memories.

It wasn't until much later that I learned who he was.

Then of all the others who have fallen to addiction, depression, and the troubles that come with being rich and famous.

"I'll drink enough of anything to make myself look new again"

Kurt had a lot of problems and the fame and money probably just made things worse.

Some people just can't handle being rich. I mean look at Jack Whittaker. He doesn't have (much)
fame, drug addiction(hopefully), depression (hopefully), or a The Courtney Love.

He was already a millionaire and he can't handle being more rich.

I'd hate to think what these actors and musicians go through that have all this other baggage.

Most normal people can't deal with drug addiction.

We're only human.

So long to all those people that have touched our hearts, but lost it all.

"Poor us, frail as they come. I'm thinking all this time I'm right, and I'm not. I cannot help myself, and I know it's not your fault. Well I was certain then, but now I don't know. Starin' at the skyline I can smell those brackish waters.
I swear I've had this feeling here before. Come on hard at night I cry you and all the others. I promise I won't hurt you anymore."

I have to agree with the other posters about your musical timeline. Nirvana may have broken 'grunge' to the masses but they weren't the first. And it was always 'grunge' either, in the UK it was US hardcore and long before Nirvana there was a solid fanbase here. And why no mention of the real pioneers like Mudhoney and Tad? Interestingly you only mention the most commercially succesful outfits as peers but while Nirvana were still relatively unknown bands like Tad and Mudhoney were pretty succesful here. Yes they benefited from Nirvana's success but they were sooner and better imho.

Wil doesn't want us to treat this like a bbs, so I'll make sure I generalize my comment Deb.

As a Canadian mentioning Leonard Cohen to non-Canadians, I usually get a response like, "Leonard Who"? I'm often surprised at the things Wil makes reference to, as some of them I think are fairly obscure, and no one I usually speak with knows them. Now, I'm not saying Leonard Cohen is obscure, but perhaps not a household name in the U.S. Leonard is a superb song writer, and Wil obviously appreciates that from his perspective as a developing writer himself.

Does Leonard Cohen even get radio play in the U.S.?

Guys like me are mad for turtle meat.

Thrice I've tried to leave a meaningful comment to this entry.

Thrice I failed.

Maybe it is too long ago, maybe the urgency he once had is no more, in my mind. Or maybe I should never ever watch MTV again on 5 april. They're still trying to show the world that they own Kurt Cobain(TM).

Which leaves me with a short video clip, on the Foo Fighters album 'There Is Nothing Left To Lose', where a completely drunk Dave Grohl stammers (and his band members are nice enough to tape and submit for the CD),

'I was in....nirBana. We helped define rock music.'

Kurt has left the building.

The only thing that really drives me nuts about the whole Kurt Cobain tribute hooplah is that nobody ever ever EVER mentions Dave Grohl. I think he had a WAY larger contribution to the music of Nirvana than people give him credit for. And look at him now: the Foo Fighters have released 4 *AWESOME* albums that I find have WAY more replay value than any Nirvana album (let's face it, we can't be angry depressed teenagers for all our lives). But I seem to be in a minority when it comes to these comparisons.

hey wil, you have such a way with words...it sends tingles down my spine...

great article! i can't believe its been 10 years either...sooo much can and has happened in a decade, that its hard to get your head round it...you know?

anyway...
take care
rach

I was 15 years old when Kurt Cobain died, and going through the worst throes of a very severe depression that would last through the rest of my teens into college. I remember being in the car, and hearing it come over the radio that he was dead. All I could think was "he did it, and I didn't." I was angry at him.

I was never a big Nirvana fan. I had the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" single, but most of the music I listened to at the time wasn't written by men (I preferred Tori Amos, Sinead O'Connor, Kristin Hersh, etc.). Looking back, I see that they wrote some pretty great songs, and they influenced a lot of young musicians. My first boyfriend in high school was the lead singer in a band and he used to wear old dresses on stage, just like Kurt.

What made me so angry about Kurt's death at the time was that it glamourized suicide. At a time when dying was all I wanted, it made a caricature of a serious, "unhappy generation." "Teen angst" became a common phrase and people started talking about our depressed young culture in books like "Prozac Nation." Kurt's death was the turning point in popular culture in the 90's. After that, things changed. Popular music became more lighthearted again.

Who knows what would have become of Kurt had he stuck it out? There's no use dreaming about it. In the end, I became a Foo Fighters fan--I find that Dave Grohl was able to come out of that situation in a really wonderful way.

for those who didn't get it....
"give me a leonard cohen afterworld "
is one of Kurt's lyrics from a song.

I remember hearing it over 13 years ago, saying to myself "Who the hell is Leonard Cohen?" - and searching out some of his tapes and vinyl. I ended up becoming a much larger Leonard Cohen fan than Nirvana fan. I understand the song that lyric came from now... and still listen to Leonard Cohen regularly.

-Scott
TwoPeanuts.com

Actually There was a Soundgarden and an Alice in Chains and a Pearl Jam (from the ashes of Green River and mother Love Bone) long before there was a Nirvana. Cobain was a good (not great) songwriter who happened to give a face & an image to an already burgeoning movement. His suicide certainly fed into the mythology that seems to overinflate the real contributions of people like him who never really have to live up to their potential. For all we know he would have been selling his music for car commercials by 1995. No one knows, and I, for one, am at a loss as to why anyone would give a shit.

Um, Cupie, I don't think it's semantically possible to induce a spontaneous abortion, or to induce anything spontaneous at all.

Wil, I don't get why people think your article wasn't published because of its content, when you stated very clearly that you didn't submit it until a day after the deadline.

I liked Nirvana okay, but I never bought any of their albums, and for reasons I still don't understand, I was very saddened by Kurt Cobain's suicide. I was 36 at the time. I have to agree with a few commenters that there really wasn't much to like or admire about him other than his ability to produce decent music. And boy, that sounds harsh to me, even though I said it.

Michael Hawkes, don't kid yourself, Kurt sought fame out willingly. He hired agents , publicists and worked with A & R guys with the specific goal of getting signed and getting famous. It doesn't happen by accident.

mikesum32, thanks for the props to Doug Hopkins, he was a drinking buddy of mine and I thought he was a truly talented songwriter I still miss his wit and his music after all of these years.

www.justiceforkurt.com

I never liked Nirvana, still don't. I have always turned to music when I needed to be lifted up from depression or as a relief from anger, so I found the whole grunge thing disturbing to say the least. As to how talented he was/wasn't all I have to say is Hendrix, Morrison, and Joplin (the 27 club he always alluded to) to my mind were more talented writers than he.
Like you Wil at the time I had recently lost a friend to suicide and seeing all the millions of people mourning this man who I felt wasn't so great made me angry. Everytime I hear a Nirvana song I still cringe.
What bothers me most is that the "symbol" of our generation is a mildly talented drug addict who decided to end his life rather than take the more challenging road and live. Being told that a cop out is the face of my generation is just plain offensive.

I know exactly what you mean: mixed feelings about Nirvana loom large in my legend as a music fan. They're one of those bands that sometimes, if you're in the mood, you can mellow out to and ignore life, whilst at other times it just sounds like alot of noise.
I always find it best to keep feelings about Kurt Cobain to myself because otherwise you're going to end up offending someone...so well done for being a brave one Wil.

It's nice to see someone else who had a complicated, sometimes ambivalent attitude toward Cobaine. I'm 32. I often feel very out of sync with my generation when the topic comes up. Most people are so fawning. I hate the "voice of a generation" crap. There are and were better writers and better musicians. There's no denying that he had an ability to write things that touched people deeply, though.

I still mostly think he's an asshole for killing himself and leaving his daughter to grow up without a father.

What these people don't realize, is that he was pre-packaged garbage for another era. The only that changes is time. I honestly don't see why people give a damn about this person. If you have a personal thing going on, fine. Keep it personal. Don't try to make it into a public matter.

The timeline of Grunge is, like any other, something ill defined and perennially debatable.

Who was first?
Well, what's first?
First to form?
First to play out?
First to sign to a label?
First to sign to a major label?
First to get radio time?
First to make a video?
First to have an appearance on MTV?
First to have a Top 10 hit?
First to have a #1 Hit?

And who owes what to whom?
Do Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains owe their fame to Nirvana?
Does Kurt owe his style to the Melvins and the Meat Puppets?
Does Tad owe his girth to Ho-Hos?

When you put a Mudhoney CD in the player, are you tingling in anticipation? Does the sound of Nirvana make you shudder? Is Kurt's apparent suicide an impediment to his status as a legend? Role Model? Song writer? Icon? Would it make a difference if it was a murder?

I think the ultimate question is:
What does it matter?

It is what it is.
Love it. Hate it. Be indifferent.

Wil,

You inspired me to write up a tribute to KC on LJ.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/soulsistahd/

Thanks.

I'm a little late to place my two cents but timeliness is not a quality I often grasp.

I grew up far away from the people that influenced me in my teens. I lived the safe sprawling tree lined streets of suburbia Ohio.
I spent the time reading all the comments on here, agreed with some, disagreed with others.
Dug on geoster post. Agreed heavily about the vintage guitars- I would break anyone in half if they came near my 79 Fender bass (and I'm a 5'2, so be amused with that image)
I grew up far away from the people that influenced me in my teens. I lived the safe sprawling tree lined streets of suburbia Ohio. 10 years later I found myself watching empteevee recount annoyingly the history of Nirvana, found myself hungry for the music like I did 10 years ago and wishing those brainless dopes would just shut and up and play the music. I don't care that its damn easy to play- it just feels good to play those cords and sing to that music.
I found the anger that even if somehow this nobody in Ohio made it out west finally and found work as a musician or in film- I'll never get the dream I had as a little girl of working with River and Kurt.
And I find myself choking on the violent words I have for those who generalize sucide.
I've gone through both sides, surviving and being at that edge.
People are just mortal, dummies, children pawing at an exsistance, bumping into others, sometimes making an impression.
I feel lucky that an impression was made on me. Their mistakes, their triumphs, their art, it lives on in those who would take from it and make it better.
Bump.

-mkf

I apologize- my skills for editing also seem in the suck catagory, along with my timeliness, grammar and spelling.

oy

-mkf

OK, so my first reaction to this one was to giggle at "Perl" Jam (as a Unix sys admin/perl hacker myself).

But there are a lot of thoughtful comments here. I find it hard to believe that it's been 10 years -- I still haven't accepted that I'm old enough to talk about things a decade ago. In truth, I don't have strong feelings about Kurt Cobain. I do remember Nirvana's performance on "Unplugged" -- it brought everything home for me. Truly great.

Thanks to twopeanuts for 'splainin' that the Leonard Cohen subject line was from one of KC's lyrics. I might have guessed that if I e