Sorry, I haven't found any useful CSS books yet.
Wonky? Interesting.

I love this site. I just wanted to say that. I get on every morning when I get to work, just to see what everyone is up to. Good job Wil and many thanks for your extensive insight on the world.

good luck with the css. i love it like my own child. as far as books on the subject go, eric meyer has one of the best:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565926226/

tthose that dont beleive in evolutoin havent been watchimg this sight. itS AWESOME!!!11 wonky or otherwiz

div tags must be evil becuase Mircosoft uses them in EVERYTHING!!1 RESIST THE EVIL!!

Wil,

Check out Dynamic HTML, an O'Reilly book. It's pretty thorough and should help you with CSS and the tag, one of my personal favorites.

BTW, thanks for the regular updates; I read them at work during an otherwise uneventful lunch.

I've never posted here so I thought I would let you know that I, for one, am happy to discover that you are not like Wesley.

Way to ask for help, big guy! Wish I had had the balls to do so when penning my literary masterpieces, the Tek series (sorry, needed the plug -- sales have been way off lately).

Oops, time for more Starbuck's!

The Shat

Since you mentioned O'Reilly, take a look at their Cascading Style Sheets, The Definitive Guide. I've got a copy sitting on my desk, and it's a great reference (you'd have to come up to San Jose to look at my copy, so I'd recommend you buy your own :).

It does a good job of not only taking you through the elements of CSS, but showing exactly how they apply to the elements on the presented web page.

One word of caution -- each browser has its own unique way of paying attention to CSS. I've been pulling my hair out trying to create a calendar using only CSS and not tables. So far, I've found out that IE likes doing things that the spec says they shouldn't (such as following width/height on inline elements); Netscape 4.x ignores font color and other attributes inside of a table; Opera is just bizarre (or wonky if you prefer :); and Mozilla actually seems to follow the CSS spec.

i wish sometimes i were nerdier, but alas, i don't have the patience to be nerdy. every time a computer related term comes up, i insert "blah blah." it all means the same to me. example: " Something that will teach me the underlying *blah blah* behind *blah blah*, and how to set up *blah blah*."

If you don't mind reading online material, I found http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/ to be useful to me when I was learning CSS.

CSS is one of those things that is insanely powerful but a right bugger to get your head round... my fairly limited knowledge was gleaned from looking at tutorial sites linked from the W3 Consortium's CSS pages. (http://www.w3c.org/Style/CSS/)

And if you've got Mozilla (or probably Netscape 6) handy then they use a fantastic CSS translucent floating menubar that I must rip of... I mean, use for research purposes.

"Remember why the good Lord made your eyes,
And Plagiarise, Plagiarise, Plagiarise!
Only be sure, please, to always call it 'research'"

http://www.awlonline.com/cseng/titles/0-201-41998-X/liebos/

Great book right there, by Lie and Bos.

I've also got a presentation that I shipped off to Wilbur that I give my new hires when they start so they can get a quick grasp of how to manage CSS.

Good shtuff.

Mark Hamill approves.

The cheese likes the CSS.

Wil, the first few sections of http://www.macromedia.com/v1/documents/css2/css000.html may help (or you may already be beyond them, from the looks of the site).

-Steven

I'll second the recommendation for the Eric Meyer book. While you're at it, here are a few good CSS pointers:

http://www.nypl.org/styleguide/ - NYPL Online Style Guide: great intro to xhtml and ccss

http://www.brainjar.com/css/using/ - BrainJar's guide to Using Style Sheets. Be sure to check out the CSS Positioning guide as well.

http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/index.html - Owen's Box Lessons are good for getting your mind around the css box model.

http://www.westciv.com.au/style_master/house/ - House of Style has a very complete tutorial available as well.

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/ - Eric Meyer has a lot of tips, guides and such, too.

Another thumbs up for Cascading Style Sheets: The Definitive Guide by Eric Meyer. It's a great book, easy to understand if you're familiar with HTML. After reading this book I was able to get a job based mainly on how well I knew CSS. How's that for an endorsement? :)

Since you mentioned using different skins for your site, here is a great page on how to do it: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/alternate/index.html The only problem I really had was ensuring that the various layouts I made were all cross-platform compatible. Eventually I just went back to one layout, since I'm lazy and stuff. Heh.

Wil-- I think you should try the transmogorphic inhibulator. It always works for me.

My problem with large, 1-topic books (such as a book dealing entirely on CSS) is they often give me 90% more information than I'll ever need. They're great if I need a reference at work, to be sure, but if its something I'm doing on my own, I want only the bare essentials.

I suggest Osborne's HTML The Complete Reference by Thomas Powell. I've found the book focused and quite helpful on a wide range of topics, CSS included.

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0072129514/qid=1011810206/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_71_1/102-4510661-3263345

Here's another one, "Cascading Style Sheets: Designing for the Web."

The mag I work at reviewed the second edition in May 2000. It's very thorough and not a difficult read. The authors -- Hakon Wium Lie, Bert Bos, and Robert Cailliau -- have worked on the development of CSS since 1994.

It's available at (where else?) Amazon.com.

Rob Matsushita wrote:
>Just to clear this up, my name is pronounced:
>
>God.

I thot it was prononced "shar-DAY".

--NT

One link that I've found useful that I didn't see mentioned is w3.org's CSS Test Suite. The CSS references I've read are great, but they usually only tell you what is valid CSS. Unfortunately, browsers do not always implement valid CSS the way it's supposed to be rendered, which has always been my main source of headaches w/ CSS. The Test Suite helps separate out theory and practice. You may have done something correctly in CSS, but that doesn't mean it'll show up the way you expect it in your browser. And now, after my inane preachy rambling, the link:

http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/

Oh, that is so '87.

O'Reilly is the way to go. I use my Dynamic HTML book all the time and I think the explanation of CSS is good. If you need a good treatment of HTML, DOM, and JavaScript along with CSS, then go with this one. I agree that the Definitve CSS book from O'Reilly may be overkill, but then again, I've only skimmed it.

Wil,

This is an excellant resource that allows you to play with different styles online. Check it out:

http://www.w3schools.com/dhtml/default.asp

Andrew

Please please please increase your font size! I have a 17" monitor and I have to squint to read your text. Changing the text size to max in IE doesn't help, either.

Will, I learned on the Book "Cascading Style Sheets" by Hakon Wium Lie and Bert Bos. URL is.... umm.... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201596253/qid=1011816468/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_71_2/002-1735118-1626415

Very clear and with a lot of real world examples.

Hey Wil. When I want a book to help me out with programming, i check out Half.com. They have a ton of books, at USED BOOK prices! Here, check this out:

http://www.half.com/search/search.jsp?meta_id=1&product=books&search_by=keyword&query=css&x=10&y=6

I'm sure you can find something here to help you. Good luck!

Hey Wil...

We got our sheets at Marshall Fields. We really like the Calvin Klein collection.

Nice, high thread count, and the colors really do match the color of the master bedroom.

They were a little more pricey than the ones at Target, but definitely worth it!

Uhm.... CSS? I BARELY know HTML Uncle Willy, so I'm afraid I'm not going to be much of a help. I noticed that you've credited alot of your work to Macromedia Dreamweaver. (Awsome little proggie and the SAVIOUR of us HTML dummies!)
Speaking of Dummies...I am sure the 'For Dummies' books will have something on CSS programming and the use of CSS proggies. >.
ARGH! Ya just gave me a headache demmit! :-P
Cheers,

~Kaylin

Ditto on the O'reilly book. I also recommend XHTML in Plain English

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764547437/qid=1011818416/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_3_1/102-3367197-3553767.

Wil,

It's important to gather data when people say CSS looks "wonky". Anti-Microsoft feelings aside, I have to say IE has pretty damned good CSS support, Netscapes 6 is ok, but looking at your site in a Mozilla-based browser (Netscape 4.7 and lower or some *nix builds) will cause you to tear your hair out.

Problem is, even a browser being W3C compliant doesn't mean you'll get what you expect. Some of the standards are vague enough that both Netscape and IE can "comply" to the standards, but do it differently.

What I've done as I've started moving away from weblogger.com and finally building my own site is to try to use as simple a stylesheet as possible. I also used the @import property rather than the LINK protperty to include my stylesheet. Since @import is not handled by older Mozilla browsers, they get a plain-text circa 1994 website. Newer browsers get the stylesheet. Plain may be "dull", but it's readable, which is damned important.

It's a hack workaround, but so far it works. I have yet to test it in AOL's browser though.

As for references, the ones listed here already are good. I generally suggest reading webmonkey for an introduction to a concept, and going to htmlhelp.com or devguru.com for a reference/syntax guide.

I've been trying to work on CSS and finally bought a book. Me, bought an instructional book! Who would have thought!? Seriously, look at 'Cascading Style Sheets for Dummies'. Otherwise any O'Reilly book on CSS is a good choice... my friends and coworkers agree. I can only say I really like 'Cascading Style Sheets for Dummies' since it has all those cheat sheets for the users who know what they're doing, but can't quite remember how to do it. It's also really good for the beginner. :-p

Peachpit Press has a book--"DHTML and CSS For the World Wide Web"--that's pretty good. The web site http://www.alistapart.com/index.html(A List Apart) is a real good source also.

Sorry, I now like negative 2 stuff about computers, so that's the end of that chapter.

Wil --

The book Dreamweaver 4 Magic (@ amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735710465/qid=1011819256/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_7_1/104-5534540-1744702 ) tells how to do skins. Since you use Dreamweaver, it might be a worthy investment.

As for CSS - there is a Peachpit book for such matters -- DHTML (@ amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201730847/qid=1011819382/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_75_1/104-5534540-1744702), which I have found to be enormously helpful.

Good luck!

http://www.eskimo.com/~bloo/indexdot/css/propindex/all.htm

That is a reference of all CSS tags. All CSS does is modify how your browser reads a regular HTML tag. You shouldn't waste time for a book on it since if you know html, you pretty much already know CSS. It is simply an extension of HTML that has some nice options for it.

IMHO (and indeed in my considered professional opinion as well :)), the best introductory book on any aspect of web design - including CSS - is 'Web Design in a Nutshell'. It's got chapters on pretty much everything you need to know, and it covers 90% of anything you'll ever need to use.

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wdnut2/

Hope this helps,

-D-

Wil - I'm generally a big fan of O'Reilly, but I'm going to advise you to skip their "Dynamic HTML" book. It's getting a little out of date, and it's a daunting read.

If all you need is info on basic CSS styles, and not lots of stuff on Javascript programming, check out "Cascading Style Sheets, Second Edition: Designing for the Web," by Hakon Wium Lie, Bert Bos, and Robert Cailliau. It's very complete, and very clear, a perfect beginner's book. Oh - and two of the authors were named as editors for the actual CSS2 specification. What more could you want?

Two ORA books: Cascading Style Sheets, The Definitive Guide and DHTML, The Definitive Guide. Both great.

hey hun,
good luck with the css! whatever that is i dont know, but ok! well im guessing that everyone that wrote comments or somes here are a lot older than me - im thirteen. wil ur my favorite actor and i luv u soo much. u were amazing in stand by me! did u go to that stand by me site i made yet? ok, well write bak to me ok buh bye luv ya
jess

You could try to do a picture link map...those are always neat...and java could be fun (But Wil, so hlpe me God you put up 130 fucking java alerts on your site I'll....well...Umm..."pain...lots of pain!" *L* riiiiggghhhhttt)

I have no idea what CSS is (horrible webmistress I am I just *ahem* borrow what I like) so i can't help ya there...again - luv the site!!! :p
~Shay

(sorry I have to mention this)
We're all a bunch of insufferable now-it-alls aren't we?

except knowing how to spell know.

Hey guys! I (stupidly) just wrote my first WW.N post, but I put it at the end of yesterday's thread. D'OH!

Well, if you care to read it, it's very nice, and I don't want to repeat myself here.

Have a GREAT evening!

Will -

Last summer I decided to go with a pure CSS (no tables) layout for my site, and the examples at Glish (http://www.glish.com/css/) helped me out greatly. I'm not going to claim that I completely understand everything that's going on, but it got the site up and running. (grin)

http://www.richinstyle.com/ - They have a decent guide to basic CSS1, CSS2, and HTML4.

A good goal would be to pass XHTML strict validation at http://validator.w3.org/ - If you're going to do it, might as well do it to the latest standards.

The w3 also has a CSS validator available, it comes in really handy to error check your code. Remember, just because IE shows it right, doesn't mean it's syntactically correct.

This message posted with Mozilla, under Linux.

I know they aren't books, but these are two very good references to learning the basics and theory behind CSS.

The whole point of CSS is the separation of style from content. I'm sure you've heard that before, but HTML 3.X cannot easily accomplish this. This is why HTML 4.01 transitional was founded, to eventually migrate the basic language of the web over to XHTML, which has benefits in that it provides backwards compatibility with older versions of HTML, as well as giving a vehicle to the complete separation of style from content. Content, of course, being provided by the content of the .html file, and the style being provided by the CSS.

To really grasp CSS, you first need to learn the basics of XHTML. I very good primer can be found here: http://www.tomville.com/tutorials/webdev/xhtml-tutorial-1.html . The guy who wrote it is a frequent visitor of www.hardforum.com - if you need any help with CSS at all, he's the man to do it. His screen name there is MalusCaelestis.

The CSS part of it can be really explained here. This guy has a huge fountain of knowledge, and pretty much everything I know of CSS I got from him. Check it out.
http://www.glish.com/css/

-Jeremy-

BTW, if you get tired of Ikonboard (which a lot of people do) check out http://phpbb.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/ - It's got just as much functionality as vBulletin, it runs faster, executes less database queries, and it's FREE. Don't get the prepackaged version of it, look at this thread: http://phpbb.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3507 to get the latest CVS snapshot. You can also find more instructions, tweaks, etc on the forums themselves.

I feel your pain, Wil ;-)!
I have 4 websites and still I never dared to get close to CSS until I was so sick of all that work. So I tried ... and WAHEEEEY!!!! You'll learn to love it :-)! Have fun... *wink*

BTW, I just found this site 4 days ago! It rocks, I am sooooo proud of you!!!!

Oooh! Comments now... Wil, you do rock. You're better at this than I'll ever be, but you have inspired me... where did you get someone to host your comments? I still need that for my site...

Wil Wheaton is a web god! :) And that pic from the zoo is cool. :) Nice. Quality...

peace, love, and big smiles!
~ angie k

Hey Wil,
i luv ur site. when will the river phoenix biography be on t.v.? u said sumtime in March, but when u find out, pleeze e-mail me bak. I made a stand by me site: http://hometown.aol.com/nyangel089/page3.html. It's not exactlydun yet i hav 2 put mor pics n stuff on it. It's my favorite movie. Good job on the site.
.::*Mel*::.

Well, I like the visual quickstart guides. The one I used for cascading style sheets seems to be out of print, but it's been replaced by:

DHTML and CSS for the World Wide Web: Visual Quickstart Guide

They have it at Amazon, but for a change of pace here's the link to Powells, which is a local bookstore for me (insert evil gloating laughter here):

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=62-0201730847-0

-Ann

hey hun,
wil your site is soo cute! yea im with mel - when will the river phoenix biography be on? go to my stand by me site ok? its
http://us.geocities.com/angel01288/standbyme.html
its really cute! ok, well write bak to me ok buh bye luv ya
jess

"When the night has come
And the land is dark
And the moon is
The only light we'll see
No, I won't be afraid
No, I won't be afraid
Just as long as you stand
Stand by me

So darling, darling,
Stand by me,
Oh, stand by me
Oh, stand,
Stand by me
Stand by me

If the sky that we look upon
Should tumble and fall
Or the mountains should
Crumble in the sea

I won't cry, I won't cry,
No, I won't shed a tear
Just as long as you stand
Stand by me"

luv ya

A Million Words Would Not Bring You Back,
I Know, Because I've Tried.
Neither Would A Million TeaRs.
I Know, Because I've Cried.
*Only The Good Die Young*
R.I.P RIVER

::sob:: River!! Man, was he boss or what? I hope I don't miss the A&E biography on him! Good luck with yer CCS webstuff, Wil.

The lyrics to "Blame Canada" are here:

http://www.canniballovers.com/melissa/blame_canada.htm

Thought I'd save y'all me typing it.

The cheese dictates that one must exercise brevity when at all possible.

I'm sorry, but can we kill Jess now ... or at least force her to type in whole words?

Yikes!

WHAT is it that you put on/in this site
that keeps me coming back for more ..
IT is a evil addiction and I am so afraid!
WESLEY..ah WIL HELPPPPPPPP...............
ok.. I got that out of my system. Thank you.
Enough of this computer shop talk! Lets try
another topic..say anything else as long as it
does not include "the above" or cheese!!!

Okey dokey. I know absolutely zilch about CSS or even HTML. But I want to learn HTML cause I have suspicions that it would be easier to use than geocities, and then I would be able to utilize the webspace that my ISP so courteously provided to me.

Oh, and good luck with the CSS, Wil.

Yo, cool sight i read it just bout everyday, what is up with the aol im screen name u r never on it.

Nick

Oops here's url

Microsoft has information on the subject of CSS.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library than do a search
for CSS. This is a good (free) start and also the W3C.org has examples, etc.

Have fun learning !!!!
JM

Why had it taken so long for the Strokes to be the album of the month? Another case of you Americans starting to appreciate something when the rest of the world has turned off it!

Um, I don't know much about CSS or HTML or computers in general except that when I turn mine on and type in "www.wilwheaton.net," I am taken to a delightful place.

Anyways, just wanted to say much luck with the website, Wil, and keep up the good work.

Oh yeah and one more thing-- the only time I EVER watched Star Trek was for Wesley. No, really. I'm not even kidding.

I have nothing to comment on. I don't know how to do anything with a website but view it & click on the little buttons. I just wanted to participate. Yes, I am a bit odd. ;)

So in hindsight, dont you wish that Wesley would have been executed for stepping in the flowers?
It would have made for a better show.

Hi Wil --

I started using MT earlier this month, and I must say, it's a work of art. I didn't even BOTHER with CSS until I started using MT. Anyhoo, I referred back to my O'Reilly "Webdesign in a Nutshell", which barely touched on the subject, but helped me learn the basics. I have a lot more to learn, though.

BTW, can't you post links in the comments section? Test. I guess this is the proof (or not).

Any luck with iB3 for the Soapbox? I am also using that on my site, I really like it, it's so much better than iB2. I love the Admin Control Panel, it's really easy to use.

Good luck with getting the site in full working order, amongst your job and family responsibilities. I hear your pain. ;)

WONKY /wong'kee/ adj.

[from Australian slang] Yet another approximate synonym for broken. Specifically connotes a malfunction that produces behavior seen as crazy, humorous, or amusingly perverse. "That was the day the printer's font logic went wonky and everybody's listings came out in Tengwar." Also in `wonked out'. See funky, demented, bozotic.

-court

Will, Try using the Opera browser to preview your pages when using CSS, then you can see the page without CSS with one click, or use your own CSS on other webpages. Plus it has "validate' in the right click menu. As long as you are using Movable Type, having WWDN available in a RSS/XML feed on amphetadesk would be automatic, yes?

Teehee.. knew I could count on Uncle Willy's comments to cheer me up after a day of slave labor.
I'm also going to be that person who stands up and says "I don't like the Stokes". Sorry Mel! But you were right most Americans are way dumb music wise. Instead I'm plugging my love for Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, Wise Monkey Orchestra, Transmission, She Said Yes, Blindsyde and America's favorite losing band- Soulcracker.

^_^;;;

Good luck with the tech stuff Wil!

Wil;

Before I toddle off to beddy-bye land at two AM EST.... just wanted to alert you to next week's ep of "Enterprise". Three words for you: Detox. Gel. Scene. Two girls, and a guy, this time. Just thought you'd wanna know, man.

'Night!

-David.

PS: thought you all would like to read this link.... friend of mine showed me this, and it frankly scared the bejezus out of me. Anyone have anything to say, on this???

http://www.poenews.com/inhouse/vx2.htm

hey Wil... try putting the "justified" div tag in your blog.. it makes it look all nice and uniform.. ;)

it's [div align="justified"]
(with angle brackets, of course..)

cheers!

Gee, I don't suppose the guy who sent the email was named Kusari or Dylon...sounds like something he would say...heh

Actually, the Buckeroo Banzai quote is "Wherever you are, there you go."
But, erm, you probably knew that.

Hey Wil,

Y'know when I originally was looking (and I am a regular bouncing'by kinda reader) I was thinking it was my browser that wasn't reading the info right. That's why I tried the other two browsers before I wrote ya.

I've made some sites... and only 1 of these (which was for my job) has css which I um, archived... (yah! that's the ticket!) to make it work... so I felt your pain. In actuality since I neither understood whether it was a) my browser b) css or c) some kind of blogger thingie... which is why I said 'twas a wonky thing.

Anyway... I'm glad so many have given some great sources to look at... since I am planning a revamp of a major site of mine this is a good thing.

Take care!

-- B. Martin

PS: The Buckaroo Banzai quote is: "No matter where you go, there you are"

NO one EVER LISTENS TO ME!! Is it the end of the
string curse?

Hi there.

I wrote a book on CSS and DHTML for Prentice Hall that's been pretty popular: Essential CSS & DHTML for Web Professionals (second edition). CSS is pretty simple to learn, and I'm building all my web sites using it (I do stuff for Charles Schwab and Landor - not bragging, just saying it works in the real world)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130649953

HTH,
Dan

I was just about to recommend the book (Cascading Style Sheets: Designing for the Web) by Lie & Bos -- but I see a couple folks beat me to the punch. It's invaluable. :)

(Hmmm... authors on parade!) I just wanted to thank everyone for their kind comments about my O'Reilly book, and say that while it was published two years ago, it's still highly relevant in that the range it covers (CSS1 and CSS positioning) is what's widely supported by today's browsers. The bulk of the new stuff in CSS2, which my book only touches on in an overview, is either not supported by anyone or badly and inconsistently supported by a very few browsers.

The text does go into the theory underlying CSS but backs that up with lots of practical examples-- I think the book has around 450 figures, probably more the 400 of them screenshots. Otherwise, it's probably like most O'Reilly books you've ever owned. The one thing I wish is that O'Reilly books weren't grayscale, as CSS is a topic that really benefits from a good color treatment. (Which is why my next book will be in full color.)

Of course there are many other CSS books out there-- Dan's, Lie & Bos, the new "CSS for Dummies," and so on. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages. My usual advice is to find a bookstore that carries several books on the topic and flip through them. Find the one that looks llike it has what you want, and buy it. If it's mine, great, but it's more important that you end up with a book that's right for you.

There are also some good online places to discuss CSS, both via e-mail and NNTP, that other people have mentioned here. Plus most authors are usually up for answering e-mail sent to them directly-- I know I am, or at least try to be when I'm not traveling, so feel free to get in touch. http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/ is the center of the CSS universe, but it can be a bear to navigate. Someone already mentioned http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/, which is my bare-bones assemblage of schtuff. I just recently made meyerweb "skinnable," although my choice of "skins" is pathetic at the moment. I'll get it more robust one of these days...

Anyway, that's probably enough from me for now. Thanks for putting up such a cool site, Wil, and have fun with CSS! It's definitely a hoot once you get used to it.

“A List Apart” (http://www.alistapart.com/) has several good (and short) articles about CSS and so forth. This is a good site to bookmark for web design in general (no, I have no afliation with them).

Here is a link to archived stories about CSS: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/indexCSS.html

Hope it's helpful and practical.
=P

Welcome, Bronwyn. I read your comment, today, in the comments from yesterday :). Angie (UK) is back! Thank you Beverly Martin, you saved me correcting that BB quote :).

Cartoon Beagle--that's pretty scary stuff. How do you rate the credibility of the author?

Wil, when it comes to things of a mechanical nature, I tend to call an engineer. I like to learn alot of things but when it means swimming in grease (engine or elbow), I grab a blanket and head for the shoreline. That's the kind of ting that requires the right tool for the right job. Tools are not my bag. Unless they are the art tools. Those I can manage.
Anyway, you guys who are wondering why you keep tuning in, let me offer this...a bit of honest, level headed comradery from the insane island of Hollywood. It is addicting.

Jabbathebutt wrote something like this...
"So in hindsight, dont you wish that Wesley would have been executed for stepping in the flowers?
It would have made for a better show."

And I respond...
No, I don't think Wesley should have been executed. It would have taken away my entire purpose for watching the show (at that time). I was young & had a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge crush on Wil. In fact, I was really, really opposed to the "new Star Trek" when it came on originally. It took lots of Wesley watching to realize that it was TOS that I really hated!

Laurie

My sentiments exactly, Laurie.

Oh, I have a resource that nobody else has mentioned. If you have a little bit of knowledge of css and want to build on it, using a css program might help you understand s'more :) The best (IMO!) is Top Style (http://www.bradsoft.com). You can download a trial, and its great how it helps you through building a style sheet.

Best of luck! :)

This time it's over,
I'm keeping my heart,
I'm gonna be strong & not fall apart ..
It'll get better, I'll no longer cry..
In a couple of weeks, I wont want 2 die,
I won't want 2 go back, I'll be able 2 sleep,
It won't hurt so bad, & it won't feel so deep
You DoNt AlWaYs GeT wHaT u WaNt
R.I.P. RIVER
:'(

Maybe it's the way you grab my hand and hold it,
or the way you kiss me, or maybe it's the way
you let me put my arms around you.
Maybe it's the way you look at me
and your smile just makes me melt.
Maybe it's the way we can talk on
the phone for hours about absolutely
nothing, but I still feel like
I just had the best conversation
of my whole life. Maybe it's the
way that I want to break down and
cry when I think about how you hold
me up on a pedestal. Maybe that's
what makes me wanna b wit u so bad.....

isnt that soo cute?!
i just had to show everyone that one
cute site wil!
luv ya

i've never had much luck with learning web stuff through books. they're great for reference, but often not great for understanding. i learned CSS through one of the tutorials at webmonkey (http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/authoring/stylesheets/tutorials/tutorial1.html). it's a few years old, but it will definitely help you create a solid understanding of what stylesheets are and how they work. then, once you have that, get a book that you can reference when you want to do something more complicated.

is the css thing all the comments u people are putting?

i totally luv jessi's cute quotes she wrote 4 river! i dont wanna do volley ball 2morrow lol. wil i don't get y u wrote all over ur page that u think ur a nerd, cuz ur definitly not.
R.I.P. Rio

hey hun,
mellie i soo agree! and that whole thing about everyone hating wesley - thats definetly not true because the only reason i like star trek is because ur in it wil! lol. good luck in volleyball mell! cute site wil.
luv ya,
_-*JeSs*-_

CSS is great - assuming none of your visitors is using NS4.x.

NS6 actually is pretty good with CSS assuming it does not crash

you see, all the comments are about the css! lets talk more about wil! and stand by me and river phoenix

how many comments did mel n jess leave here?! you know how this comments page thingy is getting to be like a chat room sorta? and yea i kno whats with the css i dont kno what it is duz anyone want to explain it to me... lol
lyl

If you want a straightforward, beginner's CSS tutorial online, I can suggest the following:

http://www.glassdog.com/design-o-rama/webdesign-css.shtml?css

Mike

well what duz css stand for??

i

love

wil

and

river

Hey Wil! I really love ur site! i don't understand the whole C.S.S. thing it confuses the hell outta me lol. and i don't get y every1 else lyked the other charachters on Star Trek cuz i sure az hell didn't. u were the only reason i even watch the show. me n jess watch it @ 8:00 on T.N.N. on weekdays, rite Jess? lol. i luv stand by me it's my favorite movie. i miss river soo much i agree w/ u wil about the stupid jerks who actually new river wuz takin cocain n heroin. i hate those stupid losers. i really wanna c hiz biography. Wil i wanted u 2 win a golden globe award! o yea, jess, u missed dream a little dream it wuz on this morning.

.::*TuPpErBaBe*::.

hey hun,
omg mel really - did u watch it? and wil, u see, mellie agrees with me about star trek! evryone else is scary u were the nly cute one! and will someone please tell us what CSS is? what does it stand for? im confuzzled! luv ya
_-*JeSs*-_
tupperbabe)-lol!
sound familiar WiL?? hint-stand by me

luv JESSICA AND MELLIE

there's a great program called top style pro that is a css creator, the interface is nice and it allows you to see what the pages will look like. Books are best but this lets you see flooey and wonky things before you post them :)

there's another mel here?

God, please rescue us from spammy adolescents.

That, and cheese.

o0o00o0o0o0o0o0o! im the 100th comment!!! wow i feel soo special! lol mellie
luv ya
_-*JeSs*-_
(did u like our heart design??)

what was that?? u took my 100th place!! now i was 101! ugh ur soo mean, whoever said that thing... jsc or sumtin??

Wil...

I can see how the comments are a taxing pain.

I'm wondering if these are CaNaDiAnS doing all of this?

Dear Lord.

And, there is nothing wrong with the cheese.

who keeps doing that? are you talking about me? im not canadian im from new york u ass

My husband pokes fun at me for using the word wonky. Now that he know there is an actual definition for it, he can shut up. It may have saved my marriage! Now if I could get him to leave me alone about saying "sack" where everyone else says "bag,"...

?? whats a wonky ??

and who called us spammy adolescents and canadians????? speak now forever hold ur peace

holy crap. there's some seriously creepy stuff being posted. this must be my glimpse into what fan mail is like. ::shiver::

Hey u took the 100th comment! HOW DARE U! lol jk. umm ok no actually we're obviously not canadians were from the U.S. and wut duz SPAMMY mean? yea jess, wut izza wonky?¿? lol.

wut creepy stuff bein posted?

Uh.

Yeah. I think comments are going away for awhile.

"Spammy" generally refers to comments made not to advance a discussion or impart important or useful information the the majority of listeners/readers/etc., but (to a first approximation) instead for any other purpose.

Exceptions to the above rule include a general "hello," a brief "hello" to Mr. Wheaton (SIR!) or, on any other site, to the site admin, etc.

Personal conversations or discussions and personal attacks (brought up only because they have occurred in the past) qualify as "spam" and should, if possible, be limited to personal communication rather than postings to a publicly-visible note system.

Yet this is scarily distrubing...but I must mention one thing.

There is *nothing* wrong with Canada. (minus the few that lack the ability to spell which I so readily displayed earlier)
Ok..done.

Who cares aboot the canadians. We need more creepy people from Indianapolis.

While reading down this thread, I was considering posting a caution about posting spammy and/or scary fan comments. Those kinds of useless comments can only be trouble for the survival of the comments pages. Seems Wil beat me to it though.

Sad to see the community silenced again because of some immature ones. Sigh. :-(

Can't we all just get along?! And yes this is a
island of sanity..so remember that when you
leave a comment FOR Wil..remember him? Stop
the babble and jabbing..play nice now.Why should
Mr.Wheaton(sir)want to EVEN have the comment
section if this is all thats here! Behave and
play nice...from the cosmic mother..(or we will
all have to stay in our rooms with out Wil to
talk to!)

Hey roughy.. sorry to hear that you feel such disdain for canadians.. and i was JUST startin to like you! (kisses)

Hey Wil,
I'm really sorry that a few have caused the rest of us to be punished by forcing you to suspend the comments for a while. Can't we just leave it at a few overzealous, creepy fanatics, just being overly-excited about being able to comment at your terrific site, their lessons learned, and sit them in the corner w/big dunce hats on their heads and let the rest of us enjoy comments again? Come on, Uncle Willie, give 'em one more chance, whaddayasay?

THIS is wonky, from http://startrek.com/library/individ.asp?ID=112484

Medical Update

Wesley has a birthmark in the buttocks or groin area and is allergic to metorapan treatments. In the Nova Squadron crash he suffered second-degree burns on his chest and a multiple fracture in the right arm.

Wil, thanks for the props to my site. I'm hoping to add in a couple more pages to the skinning tutorial sometime soon - specifically some information dealing with MovableType, and something along the lines of a 'master class' for working through some of the trickier aspects of site skinning.

Hope the comment situation improves a bit.

Please WHAT is "site skinning"?

Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!

*cough*

OW! my jaw!

Wil said: Uh. Yeah. I think comments are going away for awhile.

Oh, great.

We've crushed his spirit.

In two days.

I'd like to hear from the cheese on this issue.

And I now regret starting the "I'm 100th" bit.

I was drunk.

And young.

And needed the money.

No more comments? :( I was enjoying reading posts from & giving input to people who like you, Wil! In my circle of friends, I find so few people who watch Star Trek & even fewer who watched TNG... what can I say, they're freaks! :P Come on, Wil, give us all another chance!

Laurie

the obnoxious little girls will eventually grow up and learn to love scientology like the rest of us. http://www.xenu.net/clam_faq.html

If you ignore them, they will go away.

though that hasn't seemed to work with drow, has it ;-)

Yikes!

[Joy at seeing the return of interactive WWDN is quickly replaced by disgust due to fatuous comment postings.]

Whatever happened to our quirky nerd haven? In any case, virtual saludos to Roughy, Rob Matsushita, Mandy, and JSc! :-)

Well, it's been an interesting, fast-paced week. We've seen the return of WW.N in its greatest incarnation since the "glory days," almost entirely due to Mr. Wheaton's (SIR!) all-consuming addiction ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H... dogged determination and unwavering dedication to the project and we who frequented WW.N v2.x.

In the past 48 hours, we've seen every man's nightmare come true. A horde of trolls ^H^H^H^H^H... jailbait ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H... rabid fans incapable of exercising the small amount of maturity necessary to realize that Mr. Wheaton (SIR!), despite his virtually godlike status, intellect, and physique, remains mortal (BLASPHEMY! NOOOOO!!!!) and is just as easily suffocated/disappointed/bothered by uber-vocal, blind, irrational adoration, descended upon WW.N and left literally hundreds of lines of horribly misspelled blather.

Now, Mr. Wheaton (SIR!) has little choice but to execute Lockdown Protocol Charlie. Everyone, BACK TO YOUR CAGES! BACK I SAY!!!!

NO, YOU CAN'T GO TO THE BATHROOM!!!!

Put down the cheese, and nobody has to get hurt....

And here I was hoping that the first words from Mr. Wheaton (SIR!) could have been something like, "Frodo Lives!" rather than the quiet slap-upside-the-head that became so needed.

frodo. ::sniff:: those were the days.

i think you mean "frodo. ::snap!::".

does your jaw hurt yet?

Re: "Frodo Lives!"

If you don't outright get it, you'll never figure it out. I know Jbay and Spudnuts and Rob and Mr. Wheaton (SIR!) all know what I'm referring to. But, you see, they're all special.

And not really in that "has to ride the short bus" sorta way. Mostly not, at least.

Me, on the other hand....

120 frickin' comments!

How long do you guys think this 120-comment albatross will bring MT down to it's knees?

Any other blog getting 120 comments for extended periods of time?

Anyone wanna run a "how long will Wil's comments last" pool?

Am I just exacerbating the situation with my useless comment?

dogged determination and unwavering dedication ??? Right.

I wasnt expecting much from shat jr in the no celeb section of the site and was fairly certain that after the trek movie this site was done for anyway.

Grafitti is gonna be part of any BLOG/Comment page. Sort of a reminder that freedom of speech and uncensored expression is allowed.

Heres a money making Idea, Get a photo of JSc kissing wil's naked ass and then take a picture of wil autographing it and then sell it on E-Bay.

I did actually ride the short bus once, but it was an accident. Really.

Yeah, and the comments here a creeping me out a little bit too.

And from a guy who eaten, uh, meat that wasn't fully butchered, that's saying alot.

Goddamned newbies. Damn you all to hell!!!

(bangs fists on sand)

If it sells, I want my cut.

I want to hear more about not-fully-butchered meat.

was this at McDonalds?

mcdonalds indeed.

hold the pickles, cheese and maize.

*flee*

Newbies? Where? I see none *hides*

Veto on the picture idea. Remember there must be a semblence of semi-PG rating, maybe.

And the drow never leave...they just get more and more freaking annoying...*ahem*

"So....have you always been a skeleton?" [as said by Amanda to skeleton with the deck of many things]

Hold the cheese?

Roughy, are you going to take that kind of crazy talk?

*grin*

Nope.

There was even some bit about someone wanting to cut the cheese, too. What's that about?

The Cheese Frodo'd, too.

Sometimes this is too much and the cheese just needs a break.

A break like the wind.

Awww...

It relieved me of my
/Spinal Tap
tag.

Trust me. You don't wanna hear about the meat.

You don't wanna know what kind of meat it was, nor which part of the anatomy.

Let's just put it at "bodily functions not yet fully ceased" and "unconventional type of meat", and "meat not USDA approved".

I don't really wanna scare anyone away, y'see.

The comments page is getting creepy enough already.

Re:Picture of JSc kissing Wil's naked ass and semi-PG rating

Even if the ass is naked, if we don't see much of the crack, like a side view where crack is not visible, or only the top 1/3 view of crack, then it would still be a PG-13 rating.

Oh god. Please don't tell me I'm obsessing about some dude's ass. Please. I BE MANLY! Dammit!

pssst.

i'm beginning to think that the canadian jailbait powerpuffs are actually 40 year old hackers taking time out from infiltrating defence force mainframes and dripping burrito sauce down their sweatpants.

call me paranoid (or hopeful), but i'm seriously getting an ironic, evil-genius vibe from them. i'm just waiting for them to slip up - maybe the latex masks will get caught on a hatstand or something.

(ok. now, everyone go back to talking about css.)

I don't know if you'll ever ever get to see this message at the bottom of the pile o' entries regarding CSS, but I'd like to recommend my own book (natch ;-) called "Core CSS", printed by Prentice Hall a couple of years ago. It covers CSS1 and CSS2, so it's not as out of date as the publishing date might suggest.

Mind you, at the moment I am working on the update to the book, and I decided a while ago to send you a free copy as "payment" for reading your interesting posts (see http://www.captmondo.com/weblog/archive/2001_10_28_index.php, "Wil Wheaton.com Rocks" ;-). The book won't be finished for a few months, but if you're open to getting a copy of the book when it comes out (likely by summer) will send a copy your way.

8-{)}

Hi Wil

No books, but some sites:

www.richinstyle.com
www.alistapart.com
www.zeldman.com
www.scottandrew.com
www.dansteinman.com

These have been amazingly helpful to me

Rumble in the jungle.
Okay..... twas a little weird, but funny.
I would like to know how that debate got startred.
freaky messed up people outr there, including myself. Scary.

Oi! I happen to be Canadian thank-you-very-much...and I don't think I am spammy in the least.

Saw the discussion on the page, about Uncle Willy and Annie getting into a true blue, WWF style drag out, knock 'em down fight...

I'd have to say I'd go for option number one, simply because it seems more entertaining. Two things you forgot Uncle Willy...
1.Where's the Ultimate Warrior and/or Macho Man? and,
2. What about your big pseudo-retirment come-back that's to be played out at a Super Slammy event in the (not so) distant future?
~Kaylin

All I have to say is that if you can't type out your words, then you are not conversing. Wil, please don't take away the comments! Please? I hope that others won't jeopardize our privilege. Wow, do I feel like a little kid now or what?

Wil and friends,

I do not wish to spam (having, unfortunately, nothing at all to contribute to the topic of useful CSS references); however, as Wil has indicated that perhaps his comments feature may be soon disabled, I am strangely compelled to add my newbie’s 2 cents...

First, major kudos to Mr. Wheaton (SIR!) for having the desire, drive and tenacity to create and administer such a fun spot. Most refreshing... Good job... Way to go... Atta boy... ad nauseum...

Second, any public forum, especially one offered by a celebrity, will suffer from mindless, inane intrusions by those whose maturity and/or intelligence may not equal that of other participants (witness this post! ;-) One may only hope that Wil will [~hmmm… Wil will?~] ignore the weirdness and accept it for what it truly is — sincere, albeit perhaps inappropriately expressed, affection for him and appreciation for his work. IMHO, the comments contribute something (exactly what, I’m not sure) to the site’s appeal, no matter how strange their content may inevitably become. It would be a shame to lose them.

Finally, a hearty thanks to fark.com for posting the link to Wil’s site. As a result of following that link (and those herein), I have spent what would otherwise have been a typically drab morning enjoying a most entertaining oddyssey [spelling intentional] exploring the wonders of blogs and other modern geek cultural phenomena about which I was (and in large measure, remain) woefully ignorant. As an ELDERLY nerd (indeed, as one who is still enamoured of hollow-state technology!), it is quite refreshing to see that the Geek spirit survives, nay that it thrives, in today’s (to me, anyway) largely incomprehensible world.

Thanks, young Geeks. You give me hope! Be proud, be strong...

Colin

Colin,

Wow. That post was...wow. Very well written IMHO.
I also have nothing to contribute to design of CSS styles (Hell, I'm an HTML Dummy and nearly threw my computer out the window of my second story apparentment when I tried to learn JavaScript. >. Macromedia Dreamweaver....gotta have it. My site revolves around Dreamweaver. If I didn't have it, I'd be using flaming logo text and spinning animated GIF's.
The more I use Dreamweaver, the more I learn. (Going back to 'edit' helps alot, 'cuz I can never leave well enough alone. =^o.O^= )
Thanks for your post. It was very well done.

And Wil...no worries man. It's a part of being an icon to a popular culture. You get the occasional fanatically loyal, frothing at the mouth Uber Fan that can't quite contain themselves when they meet their Obsession.
Of course, you already know about this, so that last bit was pretty redundant.
Don't let it get to you, and don't let it stop you from doing what you like. :-)

~Kaylin

i must say one could understand why you wouldnt want to have comments on your page. troll bait right? thats what i figured when i first came here, expecting to see 100's of comments about how poor wes sucks. to my surprise i found thats not the case and in fact most of the regulars are gracious people with real lives that understand the difference btw wil wheaton and poor wes. so i think it would be a waste to see the comments stricken from record due a few trolls. someone blow up that damn bridge.

wow, so we were soo just the center of this comments thingy before, right? yea well you can put commetns back on because ill never write another comment to you, wil, if u want.

:'(

Need CSS training? Try this:

http://www.aw.com/catalog/academic/product/1,4096,0201596253,00.html

BTW, where's the Stats4all striped ball?

If comments disappear, the terrorists have won.

Is there IP banning on this thing?

Wil, the site is great, you've got a outrageous sense of humor, and you're a lot cooler than one would think.. One suggestion however; reverse the sequence on the comments.. I think the more recent comments should come first.. Other than that, WWDN is a fun spot.

I have used some CSS including div.class before. I tend to prefer the programming help on the web and have created my site to use frames and css. I know that frames suck arse but I really haven't revamed for about a year and a half. Considering it is only a place where I can have family look through my photo album while I am working for the USAF in Italy. I had my camera stolen out of my luggage about a year ago and cannot afford to replace it. (Hey Wil- want to help a brother out?)

I read your site almost daily right when I get to work and look forward to seeing your work in the next Star Trek feature.

I, too, am interested in creating a table-less website, so I'm on the same quest.

Today, I found an interesting link that might help both of us:

http://www.brainjar.com/

Good luck

Will, Nice job on the site. It's obne of my favorite sites. And thanks for the Slashdot interview. Good stuff.

As for CSS, check out Western Civ's CSS tutorial. Not only is it about CSS, but it is written WITH CSS. That strikes me as somehow oddly meta-physical.
http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/index.html

Wil,

don't know if anyone in the above 150+ comments mentioned it or not, but I really like the Visual Quickstart Guide for CSS and DHTML. I normally hate those dinky visual quickstart books, but this one is pretty fat and does a good job of making CSS easier to understand.

josh

Hey Wil - forget the books, just get TOPSTYLE PRO from bradsoft.com. It's a rock-solid, dirt-cheap, way-cool CSS editor.

It has a great help system that will fill you in on CSS details, but you'll learn CSS just from using the product.

It's from the guy who originally developed HomeSite (which is now a Macromedia product.)

I've used it for a couple years now and love it.

I must second those who've recommended O'Reilly's "Cascading Style Sheets - The Definitive Guide". This is an excellent reference and perfect for what you are looking for based on your comments. I've been redesigning my own website with only div tags, and it can now be totally redesigned with only a stylesheet change.

Also, I'm not sure what software you use for your actual pages, but if you haven't already, check out HomeSite (formerly Allaire HomeSite, now owned by Macromedia). This comes bundled with a shareware copy of TopStyle Lite, a very useful stylesheet editor with an attribute/property reference and auto-preview window. Well worth a look.

Cascading Style Sheets by the dude that invented the chit, man...

ISBN: 0-201-59625-3

Cascading Style Sheets
Designing for the Web, 2nd Edition

Hakon Wium Lie & Bert Bos

What the fuck Wil! Won't you please open up comments again dude??? I mean even you have to know that the assholes that say mean shit aren't nearly as numerous as those of us out here who have nice things to say. Why cut off your nose to spite your face as the saying goes?

What's Crackin! - Just need to go Play Bingo - for my Online Bingo Habit! But I cannot Find a Good Bingo Online website to cover my bingo addiction!

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