Sadly this does not surprise me... the American judicial system has so many problems and I am sad to see someone innocent lose their life.

***THE BEEJ***

Aye Aye Captain. I'm Number one. You all want what I got so bad. I might as well, nothing else better to do. Plus I agree with ya.

Dang you Beej.

Like he's going to get off. You know us Americans aren't happy until we see BLOOD SHED!

I have recommended the book "Dead Man Walking" by Sister Helen Prejean to just about everyone that I know. I was firmly on the fencepost about capital punishment for years until I saw her speak and read that book. The woman is persuasive....

Sometimes I really hate living in this state. Bobby-boy can expect a LONG letter from me.

Thanks for posting this.

And that is the A #1 reason that we should abolish capital punishment.

A #2 being it is cheaper to keep the garbage under permanent lock and key rather than going through appeal after appeal before we waste critical resources to give them what they truly deserve IF they are guilty.

But I say err on the side of caution and throw their farking asses in the stir and forget about them.

I have to watch, on a semi-annual basis, the misbegotten, disenfranchised, issue lacking youth of America (and Susan Sarandon besides, WHO I think is a pretty talented person otherwise) trapse through the streets of Philadelphia crying for a new trial for cop-killer, Mumia Abu Jamal. And it makes me physically ill and so help me if I had my way, I'd at least waste a dozen eggs on these protestors except that I have already spent a night as a guest of the detectives in the City of Brotherly Love and do not intend to repeat it.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Yeah...I used to support the death penalty as a general rule. But it is racist, sexist, and it can be totally avoided if you have enough expensive lawyers. There is just too much room for error.

Well, I fond a email that Holden can be reached at via of searchin the net.

Give 'em hell troops.

constit@mail.state.mo.us

This should make it easier for us.

BUT REMEMBER:

Email's can be deleted but letters although can be thrown away are beound to get more attention when they have to have a dump truck to deliver their mail to the executioner (Holden). Time to take his hand off the switch.

folks:

at the moment, i'm not too proud to confess that missouri is my home state, but please, please PLEASE understand that what is happening there is happening all across the country!

in fact, the u.s. supreme court has just agreed to hear a case regarding the captial punishment conviction imposed upon a mentally retarded man who DOES NOT possess the means to determine right from wrong!! keep your eyes peeled on this one, i just KNOW justice o'connor will provide the swing vote, yet again, and bring some sort of order to this matter.

getting back to missouri, and governor bob holden??
ah hell, what can one say? indeed, write letters, send emails, plead yell scream shout, do whatever it is you hearing folks do with those mouths and tongues and vocal cords of yours, but do it, you must do it, we must act.

*sigh*

and other countries wonder why we take such a moral high path when it comes to their actions and we can't even look at our own reflections in the mirror.

thanks for posting it, will.

missy

The vengeful part of me loves capital punishement and I can't help but smile at the thought of some twisted murdering fuck getting what he deserves.
But my head says otherwise - and cases like this underline the fact that I just cannot reconcile the death penalty with true justice.
I hope things go well for Joseph Amrine .

"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effectual as their strict construction."

U S Grant Inaugural address, March, 1869.

From the article:

As a historical footnote, it was under then-state Attorney General John Ashcroft, now the U.S. attorney general, that the initial decision was made to fight Amrine's appeal, even though witnesses had recanted. Sean O'Brien, director of the Public Interest Litigation Clinic at the University of Missouri Law School in Kansas City, says that decision was vintage Ashcroft.

"While his fingerprints aren't on this case, he set the tone in the office," O'Brien charges, "that the attorney general's office is duty-bound to oppose all applications for relief, no matter how meritorious. In other words, they would continue to press for execution even if there is some doubt about guilt."

hi, me again...

please forgive all constituents in the state of missouri for fostering john ashcroft upon your psyches...it was bad enough we had to watch him get elected and be governor of our damned state, but to see him successfully run for senate and then be handpicked for attorney general?? it's enough to make one fetch a bottle of tequila and sit under the stars, counting each one by one, thinking of the ways we could HAVE PREVENTED this travesty of justice.

ok, i'm rambling, but hey, i'm deaf, words to me are like flowers to bee -- *sweet*

thanks again for posting, wil.
keep up the good fight.

missy

Well, I'm still all for capital punishment, but only when its needed. If there is evidence showing this guy is innocent, then in my opinion it can NEVER come too late. I'm emailing the gov to urge him to grant a pardon.

Missy, annoying doesn't even begin to describe the crap you are writing.

Well, they've just received my email. Hopefully we'll make a difference.

well FORGIVE me, alexis, for being deaf and not having the same comprehension and understanding of the finese of the english language as you.

crap? jesus, alexis, you might as well toss wil's cat's pee on me while you're at it.

am i supposed to be witty?

i'm commenting about wil's post and here you're trashing me because mine isn't as clever as the other's??

thanks, alexis.

gee, i may be deaf, but damn, i can read you loud and clear.

missy

Yeah, what's up with capital punishment? Although, it's been abolished here in Canada, it really irritates me that such a supposed "free and liberal" country can commit murder and call it justice.

"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" - Gandhi

LOL! Alexis, relax. Why is everyone so uptight?

Email to government offices does not make a difference, because it takes three seconds to do it.

Writing a letter to them (or less preferably, a fax) makes a much better impression. It's something they can hold in their hands, and it takes you time to do, so they know you're serious.

If you're trying to get a point across to a government official by sending email, you may as well just delete it before it leaves your Outbox. It does about as much good. Harsh, but true.

I suspect this is why Wil didn't just post an email address in the first place.

Alexis, annoying doesn't even begin to describe your post

The financial aspects of the death penalty aside... you can free a man 25 years down the road if he's proved innocent. You can't bring a dead man back to life or just say "Ooops" if the wrong person is executed. There've been, what, 86 people released from death row in the last couple of years because DNA proved their innocence years after the fact? Kinda makes you wonder how many died who didn't deserve to...

Ian,

I made that point myself however, I feel a email is better than nothing.

I mean I urge all to write the letter but hey, if they are too busy to mail chances are they can find that 3 seconds to email.

ALthough you do make a valid point.

I'm sorry, but the guy was convicted by a jury of his peers. Now all the sudden the witnesses from the first trial are saying something else? Something's fishy, and convicts aren't inherently trustable anyway.

I'm not going to be sending a letter.

"convicts aren't inherently trustable anyway"

So, *convicts* provided the testimony which convicted this guy, and now the jury of his (all-white) peers is saying that, in light of new evidence, they feel that he is innocent, deserving of a pardon, or at the very least a new trial. So the question I ask is, when are the convicts trustable? When they're providing testimony to condemn this man, or when they're providing testimoy which exonerates him?

Did you even read the story? It's all in there.

KAKAZE: I think that warrants another trial at the very least, don't you?
There still exists the possibility that he's guilty, but I think it would irresponsible and unjust of us not to at least look into the matter in a new trial. Especially since some of the original "jury of peers" that convicted him now think he's innocent.

I don't know what to believe, anymore.

Dubya on the delay in Timothy McVeighs execution:

"This decision is going to create some frustration amongst people whose lives were destroyed and turned upside down by Mr. McVeigh," the president said, endorsing John Ashcroft's postponement of the execution.
"But it is very important for our country to make sure that in death-penalty cases people are treated fairly. Today is an example of our system being fair."

Frankly, I find convicts untrustworthy 100 percent of the time. However, I also find the idea of the state committing murder even more heinious. Innocence or guilt don't factor into my lack of support for the murder of criminals. I would hope that we have advanced beyond "An eye for an eye." As a Christian, I find the whole idea of capital punishment morally reprehensible.

BTW, Missy, you guys have nothing to apologize for- Missourans elected a corpse rather than Ashcroft, so I think you can be forgiven. Texas, on the other hand...

"am i supposed to be witty? i'm commenting about wil's post and here you're trashing me because mine isn't as clever as the other's?? thanks, alexis. gee, i may be deaf, but damn, i can read you loud and clear.
missy"

Get a fucking life! Don't pull the handicap card just because you're embarrassed. And just for the record-HELLA annoying.

As a human being I find the idea of using death to punish *anything* reprehensible.

My cousin was murdered 6 years ago and even that did not change my belief that killing in the name of the state is wrong. The worst punishment I could think of for the man who killed him would be to live the rest of his life behind bars, confronted with the evidence of his crime.

Would that we could require our elected officials to face the same fate each time they wrongly execute an innocent person.

For those of you who haven't read Salon.com in a while, you might also find it interesting that the same Ashcroft who has his hands wet with blood in this case also figures prominently in attempts to get bookstores to give reports to the government about the books we buy from them. All this in the name of "national security."

I read the article, I still say the same thing. The first people who testified against him said he was guilty and now after how many years, they come back and say "Oh we were bribed for our testimony for rewards."

UNTRUSTWORTHY...NO CREDIBILITY.

Why did it take them this long to say they were bribed?

The ONLY thing that I can see to justify a new trial would be the fact that his lawyer has been deemed ineffective counsel for two of his other six death row clients.

And Wil, don't turn it into a race thing...I saw that (all-white) thing you appended to your statement about the jury.

There's no evidence of racial bias.

Everyone likes to play the race card, which is crap.

In Texas right now sitting on death row are:
whites: 152
blacks: 187
hispanic: 110
other: 5

Looks to me like race has nothing to do with it here. Guilty is guilty, white or black.

oh and the the last one we got rid of was white (1/31/02) and the next one (2/28/02) is white also.

Kakaze: I wasn't trying to turn it into a race-thing. What I was pointing out was that this "jury of his peers" were white, and he was black, and it was in Missourri...oh, wait. I guess race may have played a role in this after all.

Mrbob makes a good point, though.

Anyway, I just want to take a second and point out the mantra of WWDN: Argue *ISSUES* not *PERSONALITIES*. Let's behave like adults, and leave the flamewars for someplace else.

Usually, I don't care for Wil's political standpoints. Quite simply, we don't speak from the same political platform. Which is a-ok, because this is America and we are (*gasp*) allowed to have different opinions and both still be right.
This time, though, I must put in my $0.02. I am from Columbia, Missouri. I actually live 15 minutes away from Gov. Holden's mansion. Lemme tell you about his political environment: not a single person in Missouri likes this guy. He was elected under VERY hazy conditions. Democrats nor Republicans like him. His nickname in Jeff City is "One-Term Bob."
This should strike a nerve in you, Wil -- he has asked our state congress to eleminate our film commission.
In a nutshell: This guy is an idiot. Call him. Write him. See if you can get some sense knocked into his thick skull. His constituants sure don't seem to be having any affect on his idiocy.
Oh... and go check out my journal. :)

I still say that ANY doubt about a death row inmate's guilt warrants another investigation and/or trial. Potentially putting an innocent man to death is unforgivable.
A new trial might be time-consuming and it might be costly, but it's the right thing to do.
I personally don't believe in taxes but since we're stuck with them I'd willingly pay my percentage in the name of justice.

I can't believe another innocent person was killed.

Mel,

He hasn't been executed yet. But soon.

In reading the whole story, and then searching around the net for some background to this, it seems that this inmate (and others) didn't get the full benefit of having competent counsel. It also seems that some witnesses were never called, witnesses who later had to come forward of their own volition -- albeit years later -- to make the case that this man is innocent.

These and other irregularities cast "reasonable doubt" on the man's guilt. As such, our society has an obligation to re-examine the case with at least as much due diligence as we can muster. No one was ever hurt by a prisoner staying alive a while longer in order to find out if he's really guilty or not.

What's the rush to kill, anyway? He's already stuck behind bars, and he's costing the taxpayers a lot less than the care and upkeep of the governor of the state, or his predecessor, for that matter.

Again, if we execute him wrongly, will the politicoes be held responsible?

Yeah, right.

It strikes me that we (collective humanity) are so quick to judge and that somehow death is an appropriate punishment for death. I used to be in favor of the death penalty, but the more I see it used in disproportionate numbers against people of color, the poor, the retarded... just to name a few... the more it seems to be a nuclear bomb solution -- a dirty weapon once used but never, ever leaving a clean aftermath.

Say...we could get one big petition together instead of a zillion emails and letters.

Just a thought. I am too tired to evaluate it so I may disagree with it tomorrow.

I'm torn. I'm from Texas and consider myself the classic conservative Democrat, in the mold of Lloyd Bentsen. My basic instincts say keep them in the pokey for as long as they shall live with no possibility of parole - not currently an option in Texas. But my Lord, you read some of the things some of these animals do, and I fully support Dennis Miller's idea of thinning the herd. I just don't know.....

Convicted murderers should be locked up for life and tortured the whole time, not put to death. 'Nuff said.

I sure do like to gab.

At any rate, sent an email out and got a letter in the box.

WHOA!

Jason,

Care to post the reply you got?

Wil,

Should have been more clear. I meant that I sent an email and put a paper letter in my box. Sorry bout dat. Done got uncle willy all excited.

As in my mailbox.

Hi all,

They actually have a contact form on the state website for the governor's office. One of the topics that you can check off is actually "Executions"! I find that disturbing. There's strength in numbers. If we all start emailing them through this form, you know he'll at least hear about it.

http://www.gov.state.mo.us/mail1.htm

mr bob,

You wrote:
"Looks to me like race has nothing to do with it here. Guilty is guilty, white or black."

Well, statistics do show an interesting trend. Based on the numbers you gave and the 2000 census data for Texas The percentage of people and death row inmates by race in Texas are:

Race Death Row Pop.
White 33.5% 52.4%
Black 41.2% 12.0%
Hispanic 24.2% 32.0%
Other 1.1% 3.6%

There is a disparity. Straight statistics say that the percentages should be roughly equal, all other factors being equal. The fact that those percentages aren't equal means that some factor must be influencing the numbers. I don't know what that factor is, but it does merit a second look.

FWIW, I do not condone the death penalty for any reason. Killing is against my moral code for any reason other than self defense, and I don't believe that killing a prisoner is defending anyone.

Actually, the interesting thing would be if you could get a survey of the income levels of the inmates... I would be willing to bet that 99.44% of them are from at or below the poverty level. The racial bias exists because the majority of urban poor are minorities, and there is a MUCH larger police presence in any city than in the country, where the majority of poor whites live.

I hate to say this but this is why I prefere the Canadian legal system..no death penelty. Thank God.

And I agree....a large amount of black people find their way to death row then white people. It's not a perfect system, but again...almost every gov't and judicial system need a 'boost' lest things like this happen, but...as the world at large has 'bigger' problems to deal with this often ends with nothing being done then a lot of bitching.

Hi gang. Well, this is a dangerous fray to jump into, but I'll contribute my two cents.

My dad was a cop for 20 years. I grew up on the mantra "We wouldn't arrest them if they weren't guilty", and I believed it...until my final year of law school when I took a class that changed my life.

To graduate, the ABA requires that you take a seminar class and submit a final research project. The classes were supposed to give us an in-depth knowledge of one particular area of the law. I chose “Capital Punishment” because I thought, at least it would be interesting reading (sick, I know, but YOU spend two years in legal texts and see what it does to your brain). At any rate, I went in there with the mantra “kill ‘em all” and came out…knowing that there simply isn’t a simple solution to this problem.

First of all, let me say that I can see the truth in EVERYONE’s side of this debate. To even be eligible for the death penalty, you have to commit “murder plus”- and let me tell you, these are some of the most shocking and unspeakable crimes you can imagine. It is much easier to think that the people who commit them have somehow forfeited their humanity than to imagine that such darkness can live inside of us. It is also true, however, that the death penalty is distributed on a grossly unfair basis. Someone commented on the “Race” card earlier, and what the statistics had to say. Based on the cases we studied race does appear to play a major factor in “who gets it” (though studies suggest this has more to do with economic factors than actual ethnicity). The statistics that were quoted are misleading because they only refer to people who actually received the death penalty. Before the trial even begins, a determination is made whether a person is “death eligible”—in some states a judge decides that, and in others a jury does (though the U.S. Supreme Court is currently considering whether allowing a judge to make that decision robs an accused of their constitutional right to a jury of their peers. If they decide that it is unconstitutional, literally HUNDREDS of inmates may have their sentences commuted). I did my study on gender in the death penalty, and found only TWO cases since the death penalty was reinstated in which women had received the death penalty and actually been executed (caveat: I haven’t updated my research since graduation). BOTH of them were portrayed as lesbians/unfeminine at trial.

But that isn’t what changed my mind.

The last week of class, we didn’t have any assignments. We toured the death chamber death row at the prison in Lucasville, Ohio. Let me tell you, you will NEVER believe that prison is a country club if you have heard those gates close behind you just once. The thing that struck me most about the death chamber (aside from that “this MUST be a movie set” feeling) was how detached everything was. The tubes for the lethal injection machine ran underground to a separate room where three people press a button at the same time so that no one ever knows “who did the deed”.

While we were walking out. I saw a cardboard box with the word “Sponges” scrawled almost illegibly across the side. “Why are they keeping cleaning supplies in here?” I wondered aloud to the guide.

They didn’t. They were soaked in salt water to conduct electricity in the chair.

Somebody’s life- death- was in that box, and it didn’t matter enough to print in even letters.

I realized, looking at that box in that hidden little room, knowing from the past three months that actually receiving the death penalty was like “being struck by lightning” (as the Supreme Court said in the case which temporarily suspended the death penalty), that capital punishment, as it currently exists in America, does not fulfill any of the objectives of the justice system. Those criminals aren’t an example: no one sees them, and we claim that we don’t want to make them suffer. We certainly aren’t reforming them. At a minimum, I suppose, we are keeping one person from committing further crimes…but at what cost? Are we willing to be wrong.

Okay, sorry for gabbing- I know that you come here to read Wil’s thought, not mine, but I couldn’t be quiet this time. I’ll leave you with two thoughts which might spark interesting discussion:

In my class, I learned that death penalty OPPONENTS favor a move back to public execution. They feel that (in addition to seeing if America really has the stomach for this to be done) it would at least serve as a better deterrent to crime. Discuss.

It could be argued that (in light of the socio-economic, gender, and race-based issues) it would be fairer to execute MORE people, rather than less.

By the way. I’m really impressed by how (mostly) intelligently and calmly people are expressing their opinions on this topic. It is, by nature, something people feel passionately about one way or the other.

I have been involved in Australian law enforcement for 8 years now and as a matter of course I keep up to date with jurisprudence in many onther countries, including the United States of America.

I have two observations, but please understand, I don't live under your judicial system and my own biases come into play in my thoughts.

1. Justice should NOT be politically motivated. Far to often USA justice seems to be connected with the political ambitions of those applying the justice. Elected officials should not interfere or influence the judicial process - doctrine of seperation of powers must mean something surely! Justice needs to be applied with fairness, consistency and compassion - with particular regard to NATURAL justice, the consideration of what is RIGHT must accompany the application of the law.

2. The Death penalty is the absolute. It is the extreme. In almost every other democracy on earth it is non-existant - why does the land of the free and the home of the brave feel the need to use it? it is not even universally popular in the USA - about 54% of the pop. oppose it according to surveys quoted in the NY times (online newspapers - gotta love em!)

Heinious crimes disgust and revolt us all equally and while our gut reaction is almost always an immediate desire to see the perpetrator suffer horribly, we are also capable or rational thought, and I know that true justice is not revenge.

Put his shoes on your feet. Dozens of innocent people have been released from death row, dozens have been executed can you in good conscience allow another when you can participate in stopping it?

You put a very interesting perspective on this conversation, Stephanie.

I, personally, don't know what I feel about the death penalty, anymore. It's an interesting suggestion, returning to public executions. I, for one, would NOT want to watch something like that... but I wonder how our society in general would take to it...? I just keep having these flashbacks to the mob scenes in "A Tale of Two Cities" or "The Count of Monte Cristo" ...people actually ENJOYING watching an execution.

Perhaps I'm just silly and naive, but I just can't even imagine taking someone else's life... no matter what they did.

Good point. Look at history. The Roman Colluseum. eh? Gladiators fighting to their doom. Crowds cheering as murders happened right in front of them.

I am not so sure that society wouldn't embrace this idea inside and possibly not embrace it on top.

This was attached to a reply to one of my posts and I'd like to know if it was aimed at me as well:

"Anyway, I just want to take a second and point out the mantra of WWDN: Argue *ISSUES* not *PERSONALITIES*. Let's behave like adults, and leave the flamewars for someplace else."

I thought I was arguing the issue, if my posts didn't come across that way I'm sorry.

Well, this is pathetic - it looks like another racial injustice thing to me - and I'm white, for what it's worth. I will call tomorrow and voice my opinion.

I'm not supposed to be on this planet.

I believe there has been a clerical error of some sort.

Please remedy.

All my best,
Lermontov

On my planet, we don't kill people because paperwork is burdensome.

I'd really like to go home now.

This place is scary.

Not in a good way either.

Somewhere, some place far away, a milk carton bears the face of Lermontov.

My mom misses me.

Mom, this is ALL fucked up.

Lermontov needs bus fare.

Lermontov?

Intersetlar ESP?

(I was going to coment on the death penelty thing, but everyone's already said stuff I agree with, and said it better than I could have, so I'll laugh at the joke instead :-)

KAKAZE - I doubt that post was referring to you. I'm sure it was just aimed at those few who decided to make their arguments personal instead of purposeful. I didn't agree but I wasn't offended. I guess this is why smiley faces and such are so popular. They take the edge off when it isn't feasible to change the tone of your voice :)
See?

Boy, I wasn't trying to be first....was amazed it occurred. But also as a person living in Texas, yes my state executes a lot. (a Shrub thing) Has it reduced the crime level? No, not really.

My personal opinion is that once convicted, a sentence should be carried out immediately. It takes years and years before a convicted felon is executed -- giving them time to "find God" or "make peace with their faith" -- two options they never gave their victims.

Plus their execution is more peaceful than what they did to their victims. I'm bloodthirsty enough to wish that McVeigh had been strapped up to some C4 and all the relatives that wished to participate in his execution had been given radio transmitters to blow his butt up... some would have been dummies...but he would have gone as violently as though he killed. Eye for an eye.

But when justice is subverted... things need to be looked into... people need the right to see/face their accusers and to get justice. When the decision is made... that's it.

In this particular instance when so many facts and non-fgacts are blurring the lines of justice - the man deserves a second trial and allowing the evidence to be brought to light. Then no matter what the final decision... that's it.

I know that Texas (along with other states) may have executed people wrongly or detained them behind bars wrongly. But if we want change we must demand it. It might be us next time...

Peace...

***THE BEEJ***

Wil, thanks for the heads up on this. I live in Massachusetts, but I called Gov. Holden's office this morning to voice my opinion and to show that this case is drawing national attention. I hope that the people involved can see their way through to doing true justice, as opposed to contributing to the cycle of violence.

And you're just about the coolest guy in the world. I've known this since I was about 13, but this post, and this blog in general, really shows it. Take care, and keep rocking it out!

Stephanie-excellent post. Did you go to school at Northwestern?

Someone up there mentioned the death row inmates who were freed due to DNA evidence. May I recommend "Actual Innocence : When Justice Goes Wrong and How to Make It Right" by Jim Dwyer, Peter Neufeld, and Barry Scheck. Read about how cellmates of people on trial have lied to serve their own needs. About a law enforcement official who *made up* lab reports that sent at least one man to death row. About the unreliability of hair and fiber matching.

Fascinating read. I recommend it to anyone interested in capital punishment, especially.

That just ticks me off. Since when does evidence come in late? They have to kill somebody so it may as well be an innocent person? They better stop it.

This just happened in Ohio on Tuesday.. the evidence came in too late and he was executed anyway.

I just find it stunning when an issue of this magnitude can be solved by the simple application of common sense, and yet that common sense is buried under "rules and regulations."

One of the things that I didn't see discussed here was that the prisoner who accused Amrine got early parole for his "co-operation" and then killed another man shortly thereafter.

So the potentially innocent man is being executed and the potential criminal got to kill someone else.

Wow.

What the heck ever happened to "Better 100 guilty men should go free than an innocent man go to prison," or whatever the quote is. (Okay, so the rant isn't as effective unless you've got it just right, but damn.) I can't beleive they won't look into this further.

Roman Coliseum? My friends, it seems to me we're practically there. How far is "The Chamber" from bloodsport? Or WWF wrestling? I know, it's all fake, and audiences (supposedly) know that. And both of those things are really very far from public executions.

The deep, dark, cynical part of me, however, fears that public executions wouldn't be a deterrent for crime any more than they are now. And I'm afraid they would get sensational TV ratings. (Any TOS fans here? "Bread and Circuses," anyone?) I really believe that violence begets violence, and that public executions would be absoultely counterproductive. I hope I'm wrong, and I wish I had more faith in humanity than that. But in the face of stories like this one, it's hard to have much faith in us at all.

I'll write my letter to the Governor, though. Maybe it'll be effective, maybe not. It is only by challenging it one case at a time that the faults in the system can be brought to light.

By the way, and slightly off-topic, did anyone hear the NPR report a few weeks ago about the bogus drug busts in Texas? I was so furious I about wrecked my car.

Laura, new here, now rambling on

"My personal opinion is that once convicted, a sentence should be carried out immediately. It takes years and years before a convicted felon is executed -- giving them time to "find God" or "make peace with their faith" -- two options they never gave their victims."

Correct me if I'm wrong - and I might be, since I don't know the system so well - but don't death row sentences get stretched out because of convicts' rights to appeals?

Mind you, seeing as how so many appeals are thrown out due to a lack of (what someone else well and simply put) common sense... yeah, maybe they might as well go through with the executions asap, instead of raising anyone's hopes. Gah. Here's hoping Amrine gets a new trial. I don't think people should just be doled out pardons, mind you; but everyone deserves decent legal representation, and full access to witnesses and evidence. Amrine didn't have these; many don't, sadly.

In the UK we dont have the death penalty any more. It was decided that if someone was so dangerous they would be locked up until they died. That way, if the court had got it wrong, they could be released, albeit with compensation. I cannot understand how a civilized nation can still have the death penalty. Of course, I am assuming that the U.S. _is_ a civilized nation.

In the UK we dont have the death penalty any more. It was decided that if someone was so dangerous they would be locked up until they died. That way, if the court had got it wrong, they could be released, albeit with compensation. I cannot understand how a civilized nation can still have the death penalty. Of course, I am assuming that the U.S. _is_ a civilized nation.

Sorry for the double post. My fault. My apologies

Two things:

1) Tom Tomorrow said the most important thing to keep in mind about the death penalty in America through a few panels of "This Modern World" -http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2000/02/14/tomo/index.html

2) A couple people have mentioned that Canada no longer has a death penalty. I should note that occasionally, members of parliament introduce private member bills to reinstate the death penalty. PM bills are somewhere around the level of "abolishing the government" on Parliament's agenda, but they still need to be watched, just in case the death penalty becomes popular again.

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