Hella yes, I remember when Pac-man exploded. And all the books to tell you exactly what pattern to take to beat the system. Bizarre. Takes the fun out of it.

Y'know, everyone has a love-hate relationship with their country. We're all entitled to our opinions, and can't make other people think as we do.

To each their own.

You're still a badass. :P

(and thanks for the Pac-man story)

Good job from your friend. We must be always vigilant. We can neither adopt a 'Father knows best' best attitude nor a baby kicking over the milk pail temper tantrum. Just because you speak against perceived infractions doesn't make you bad. Are these infractions real? I don't know, I am too far from the seat of power. But if you can get the word out, maybe someone who has more information can tell us. But the real deal is that we can't ever let our internal squabbles prevent us from supporting our troops, be they military, fire or police, in their sworn duty of protecting us.

I think you're quite right Wil to think that it's a necessity for people to act as part of the system of checks and balances on your government. Governments in most Western countries have increased in size and complexity since the early 1900s to the extent that many of the in-built mechanisms enshrined in a constitution simply haven't progressed with the times (certainly where I am, in the UK). Primarily, it's up to Congress to keep an eye on pretty much anything the US government does. But if Congress has any way near the workload of Parliament, then they simply aren't able to scrutinise the government effectively.

So, where the normal processes of checking on the government have weakened, it can't be wrong for people themselves to act as a means of scrutinising the government. Civil rights have indeed throughout the course of history been undermined by governments, until the state eventually becomes totalitarian. This is very much an extreme result of this however, and in my opinion it is highly unlikely that anything similar would ever occur in the US. Where there's always a possibility though, if people can act as a check on the government then it serves to strengthen the freedom most people take for granted.

Everyone shouts for free speech; yet when someone hears something THEY don't like, it's like "You can't say that" or it's wrong. Keep speaking your mind and exercising your right to comment on the Government. For all we know, those people who complain on the sidelines are probably wishing they had voice like you.

I read this quote in someone's .sig, so now I pass it on:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not
only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to
the American public."
- Theodore Roosevelt

We do need to make sure that our leaders have us looking over there shoulder to do checks and balances, because if we don't who will? The president is one lone person, and they are not perfect, sometimes far from it, and we as the people have had a hand in voting or attempting to vote against that individual there. In that respect it is important that we keep close eyes on that individual, because of he or she does more harm that good, then it is time to call for an impeachment. The constitution of the US was intented to protect it citzens and give us rights, and freedom of speech in on of the top five. On a related note, I was just horrified at the OSU students that were told they wouldn't get a diploma for turning there backs, that is horseshit, pardon my french, but what the hell has our leadership done to over power us the citizens. I didn't vote for Bush, and my origional dislike is growing leaps and bounds lately. That was my two cents! I may not always agree with everything you say Wil, (usualy not the case) but I respect your opinion either way.

Speak your mind and ignore the people that are pissy at you cuz they disagree. It's your right. Thanks for the pac man story too. "Puck-man" hee hee.

Wil-
Don't let them get you down. I totally understand how you feel about appreciating our rights in the US and wanting to preserve them. Frankly, if people don't like what you have to say, they don't have to read your site. However, everyone who reads your log loves that you are so honest and willing to share the fun, touching, sad, or even frustrating parts of your life with us. If nothing else, you at least offer us things to think about and no one should criticize you for offering food for thought. I for one was outraged by what happened at OSU and by a lot of the other injustices you point out. Having seen how the media failed to report completely on the events surrounding Bush's grad speech, I'm glad you offered us some awareness about what went down. This weekend I am going to write a letter to OSU's vice president and express my disappointment. Thank you for fueling my activism. And keep on saying what you feel, it's your right, and let them tell you what they will (i mean fuck 'em all the same) and here at wilwheaton.net the first amendment can live.

brie

Wil,
Couldn't agree with you more. If our leaders are willing to flagrantly abuse the power of their office, without considering the consequences to the Nation, it's people and it's principles, and we (as citizens of the most powerful nation in history) sit by apathetically and allow it, then we had better be prepared to suffer the consequences for our apathy.
This country was founded on the principle of a democratic society, where all people are equal. We are supposed to elect individuals into public office who represent the will of the people, yet we have the lowest voter turnout for elections of any democratic nation. We then complain when individuals who have no sense of morality or responsibility are elected into office. If we don't voice our opinions at the booth, then we have no right to complain.

BTW - I fully support our armed forces. They do a terrific job of keeping our nation secure.

P.S. There's a hell of a lot more people out there who feel the way you do about this topic than you may know. Don't let the few who disagree with your sense of morality throw water on your campfire.

Rock on

now all i have running through my head is that sound he makes when he dies ... bwownh bwownh bwownhwnh

The old "love it or leave it" is stupid.

Does anyone remember the Pac-Man cartoon? God, that was awful, the ultimate expression of degraded multimedia tie-ins.

I also remember, waaaaaay back in the '80s, reading an article in some "cool" kid's magazine at the time ("Dynamite"?) about "Pac-Man wrist" or "thumb" or "finger" or something like that, where people would have blisters and strains from playing too much with that balled joystick. One of the first documented instances of RSI. I remember at the time thinking it sounded pretty weak.

I always liked Ms. Pac-Man better; the levels would actually change, and the fruit moved around, which was far more interesting to me than playing the same level over and over again.

Oh my, I even remember the cartoon! Wow is it just me or where things so much simpler and happier in the 80's? We could use a little of that philosophy today! :)

Bravo to your friend, Wil!! She is a very smart person! I completely agree with you about questioning our government. My high school gov't teacher encouraged us to question every decision our gov't made at that time(the 80's). He taught us that it is our sworn duty to keep our gov't in check. After all, they work for US, not us for them!

Your friend followed my "process of posting to WWDN" rules perfectly! She stated several points already made 10000 times, she made a comparison to hitler/nazi germany, and she is your friend! She does get one point taken off for not using the Benjamin Franklin quote about not sacrificing freedom for safety.

No one here thinks you don't have the right to post what you do wil, it's just your thought process and experience behind all the stuff you write.

Isn't it funny everyone takes a hardline zero-tolerance view on civil rights here but when it comes down to actual acts of violence (terrorism), most assume that the probability of it happening again isn't enough to warrant more aggressive policing? Just wait kids, just wait. The gates of hell are open, it just takes a while for the demons to all come flying out.

I'm sad to say I was one of those who didn't really think about politics and the direction of our country until recently. And reading this site has been a large part of my reawakening to my responsibility as a citizen of this country. My thanks to everyone here who, in some way, has enlightened me. And thanks to Wil for being so open and honest -- makes this blog so much fun to read!

I see Wil's posse is becoming heavily populated with Vanessas. We're a smart bunch.

Wil, those "leave the country if you don't like it" people have missed the entire point of our country.

And, ya know, one's political party has nothing to do with things. I'm a Republican and reading articles like this one really frighten me:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/762744.asp

This line alone is scary:

"Ridge called the creation of the Department of Homeland Security “the next critical step” necessary to ensure Americans are protected from terrorists."

It all sounds to me like government taking over our lives, and scaring us into liking it by telling us they're saving us from terrorists.

Earlier today, I was reading a completely unrelated article on Internet security:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/768762.asp

It had this little paragraph buried in it:

"The Bush administration has called for the consolidation of government computer security groups under the proposed Homeland Security Department, and Bush advisers have admonished the technology community to share more information with government to protect consumers."

Again, we should like government taking over because they're protecting us.

Not to be all paranoid or anything, but who's going to protect us from the government?

I bet the Japanese don't have a word for that little hop, skip, jump thingy you do when you realize just in the nick of time you are about to step into something nasty.
And no, I'm pretty sure Scooby Doo isn't Japanese.

P.S.
You should not have to find the right words to defend your beliefs, and I find it sad that so many will say such harsh things to you because you actually think for yourself and don't follow the crowd accepting the "Whatever the government does is right" philosophy like a drone. I respect your opinions and agree that we as citizens need to see that checks and balances remain in place and are working effectively to ensure the future freedom of our country!
If they can't respect that, they need to look inside themselves as to why they are so opposed!

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence."

- somebody

PAC-MAN FEVER: the album? NO. WAY.

PAC-MAN ... didn't he spend his time in dark rooms listening to repetitive music and munchin' pills ... or was that me last saturday???

Pacman...I still love it.

Why are they playing Stand By Me...constantly on the premium channels...no compaints...just wondering....

well...tootles....

I am Batman.

I like what your friend has to say, Wil. But I'd add another dose of perspective:

It's popular, particularly among the political left, to make out like these recent assaults on the Constitution are a Bush thing, or an Ashcroft thing, or a Republican thing. But the sad truth is that this is a transparent attempt to make political hay: NEITHER of the major parties gives much of a damn about the Bill of Rights. BOTH of the major parties, when they've had their hands on the levers of power in Washington, have consistently voted for bigger and more intrusive government, and thus for the erosion of individual rights. The Clinton administration was just as contemptuous of the Bill of Rights as the Bush II administration, as was the Bush I administration, as was the Reagan administration, as was the Carter administration. The two absolute worst presidents, in terms of naked assaults on civil liberties, were FDR (a Democrat icon) and Lincoln (a Republican icon).

It's not a Republican thing. It's not a Democrat thing. It's a politician thing.

So what to do about it?

Employing our First Amendment rights to be critical of the government is an important first step, but it's only a first step. People should take a look at the Fully Informed Jury Association (www.fija.org) and exercise their common law rights to acquit criminal defendants who have been unjustly prosecuted. They should exercise their Second Amendment rights, which the Framers guaranteed us as another hedge against tyranny: buy a gun, learn to use it safely and responsibly, and be prepared to use it to shoot thugs and miscreants. We should involve ourselves with organizations like the ACLU, the EFF, the GOA, and so forth, as long as those organizations pursue a narrow civil liberties agenda. And so on.

Preach on wil,preach on. Next Thing you know people will be saying the WWF is unamerican.(oops I mean the WWE)I don't agree with everything you say but that's why it's great to be an American because we can agree to disagree. By the way I agree with about 80% of what you do say.

Keep it real
Josh

Preach on wil,preach on. Next Thing you know people will be saying the WWF is unamerican.(oops I mean the WWE)I don't agree with everything you say but that's why it's great to be an American because we can agree to disagree. By the way I agree with about 80% of what you do say.

Keep it real
Josh

Those who say "Love it or Leave it" do not understand the basis of this country. When you speak out in protest, you are not protesting America, or the American way, but the policies and practices of those MEN who happen to be in leadership roles at the moment. If noone were to speak out, slavery would still be the American way. Segregation would still be the American way. I, along with all women, would not be able to vote. In fact, I would not be able to own land either. To be more to the point, if it weren't for the great men that were our ancestors, there would be no America, we would be under the reign of the monarchy in England.

Stand up and speak out Wil, THAT is America.

Ahhh, I forgot to mention, I haven't had time to read the Pac-Man article yet, but the Nixon Administration/Bush administration was very eye-opening! Thanks for all the information that you provide.

Wil, Damn right we should be keeping our eyes on them. We should be remembering all of this when it's time to vote too. And we ALL should vote. Apathy is what lets them get away with things. Ever think about running yourself, Wil?

It takes true courage to stand up for a country you love, especially when your opinion is unpopular. You don't have to love our president to love the USA, and personally I feel that keeping an eye on our elected officials is our duty as citizens. As Americans we have the right to make our voices hears, and it's important to exercise that right. You can't appreciate what you don't use.

Wil, you have every right to your opinions, and you have a right (and a duty) to question/criticize your government. Don't let those naysayers affect your self-confidence or self-esteem. If they are petty enough to flood your email with hate mail simply because you've expressed yourself on *your* site, why should you even give their opinions any credibility?

I admire your courage for posting your personal opinions on these issues. I didn't comment on any of them earlier because I didn't want to deal with the flames you obviously have been getting. My own lack of courage just makes my admiration for yours even greater. And I know I'm not alone. Just please don't let these negative reactions make you doubt yourself or stop posting. You have a strong voice and it deserves to be heard.

It's being able to question the leaders of our country without being put up against a wall and shot that's one of the things that makes protecting our rights and not allowing said leaders to erode them away so important.

I've spoken with more than just a few immigrants from the Peoples' Republic of China and I've studied their history. The government of China creates the general illusion that the it is the Peoples' government, but when the people rebel in any way bad things happen. One man that I met was a geneticist and spoke out against the wrong things...so he spent several years in a "reeducation camp" and then was sent to the far reaches of China to teach high school level mathematics.

I'm also a veteran (U.S. Navy during the Gulf War period) and I took my time to examine what I was doing, in essence, and why I was in. In the end, America is about freedom of thought - everyone has a right to their own beliefs and opinions up to, but not including, the point that others are harmed by them (inciting riots, etc). Now, I detest Skinheads and everything they stand for but I'll be damned if I support anyone trying to stop even them from forming a peaceful protest or communicating their thoughts on the internet (for example).

So to all of the audience who reads Wil's page and thinks that he needs to move to Afganistan or that he doesn't love his country - FUCK YOU. Question authority. I won't make any slippery-slope argument saying that when you take away one right you will eventually lose others, but I will say that this is a country by the people...if you advocate the taking away of one right and it DOES lead to loss of others, you only have yourself to blame for not questioning your leaders and making an effort to do something about it.

We should always and never stop questioning the actions of the governing political party no matter if they are Democrat or Republican. This is why we live in the U.S., we have that right!

WIL WHEATON ..watch it!!! You are becoming the
"jimminy Cricket" of the web!!

But its a good thing..making people think..
even if it does include "puckman".

WIL WHEATON ..watch it!!! You are becoming the
"jimminy Cricket" of the web!!

But its a good thing..making people think..
even if it does include "puckman".

Looks like a pretty strong show of support for you Wil!

like i've said before...you're not the only one that thinks these things....
I noticed on the petition you showed the other day, the first name was Michael Albert....
My brother in law works for him.
Not sure if you're familliar with him and his magazine 'Z' or not...but it's a pretty awesome mag, and website....a good place to get real information on what's going on in the world....and a lot less 'rah rah, explosions and ballons' ala CNN
http://www.zmag.org
(ps. my bro'-in-law's name is Justin Podur...check out some of his articles...they're pretty darn good)
cheers folks....

Ignorance among people mutates the political ideologies within the governmental system. Respectively, the likable Wheaton addresses those flaws whom many ignore and so informs those people.

Pac-Man for President. Gotta be better then what we have now, right?

I have never written into this or any other website before but because of what you have posted latley I feel that I must say something. First of all I am a true proud Canadian. We value free speech as much as you, the americans, do. The only differace I see here is that as Canadians people don't get quite as pissed off for saying whats on your mind even if some people dont agree with it. I think it is very important to keep an eye on our public officials who we have entrusted to protect us. A good debate about a subject is necassary to open up that debate and make sure no one group of peoples rights are getting trampled on, for those people who don't want to take that approch this is fine, but don't bitch when this go the way of the nazies. I e-mailed the story about the person being "escorted" out of the graduation for simmply turning there back and they were as out raged as I was. What I am trying to say in a nut shell is good job Wil, in keeping the dialoge open and free for both Americans and Canadians. Anyone who thinks this act is being unpatriotic does not know the meaning of the word patriot. (Ignore the spelling my dicinary was in the shop)

P.S. your site rocks.

Vanessa,

I just read the first article, and will read the second as soon as I can sneak it in. It scares me that we are going to have one agency monopolizing on protecting the country, able to screw up without being found out, and if they have access to all the FBI and CIA intellegence, they can also cover-up on a whim. It also amazes me that the deadline is 9/11/02 because you know it has to look good even if it is a shitty idea, wouldn't want that anniversary to get here without some smoke to blow up people's asses. That just makes me ill.

No Wil, you ain't alone in this. We may be outnumbered but we aren't alone. I personally have seen this as an opportunity to examine how our governmental "philosophy" is holding up. Particularly with respect to how we treat people who are not necessarily US citizens. If you read through the Bill of Rights, you'll notice that all of the amendments refer to "People", "no person", "the accused" and so on. The people who drafted these basic rights saw these as basic rights that are fundamental - they should stand on their own merits. They belong to all the world, not just the United States. For example, the US citizens who were captured fighting for the Taliban. They are being tried according to US law regardless of what you think the status of their citizenship is. Personally, I believe they revoked their citizenship when they took up arms against their country, but to try them as if they had the same rights is not only appropriate, it is the only course open to us if we truely believe in the principles our country was founded on.
\soapbox{off}

I really get confused about this 'with us or against us' attitude that some people seem to have.

I love my country and I love America, but I am not an automoton and have my own views and beliefs. Just because I don't agree with all government policy it doesn't make me 'unpatriotic'. I support Wil for what he has been prepared to say and how he is willing to 'put it out there'.

If the government no longer has to act within its own laws then who exactly are the anarchists?

Just a thought!

Rock on, Wil me boy.

This whole discussion has caused both a lot of craptacular idiocy and a lot of thought.

Thanks for bringing it up, Senor.

I have been extremely concerned at the complete ease with people saying "Oh, it's just a sign of the times." with our freedoms slowly being taken away. How about honoring those who died on 9/11 as Americans (just like our soldiers/police/etc.) who died FOR our freedom? Yeah, over 2000 people died in that disaster, and maybe it was because security wasn't tight enough or our FBI/CIA didn't have enough information or whatever. But I rather live in a county where someone might have a possibility of enacting such a disaster than one where everyone has to lived in an enforced military state. Yeah, even in the 21st Century there is a price we pay for our freedom. Price in security, price in lives, price in hatred for cultures who don't have the freedoms we do. But to stregthen our security to the point of taking away our freedom is EXACTLY what the terrorists were trying to accomplish! They wanted to strike at the freedom of America, and make us feel like they do. Yeah, we as a county banded together to mourn and seek justice. Let's also band together to maintain our freedom!

Hi Wil,
Don't you worry about the hot-headed good ol' boys who make snap comments about love it or leave it. In my opinion, people who don't or won't understand the issues fling that kind of comment out as a way to end the conversation. In general I consider myself a supporter of this administration. That being said, I too am concerned about whether we are going to far in impacting the rights we so treasure. Spirited conversations are critical to the democratic process. Blind agreement would be the beginning of the end for our democracy.

I suppose the thing that annoyed me about your calling attention to the Bush speech was that you seemed to automatically assume it was the Bush administration that imposed that rule on the university. I didn't see any proof of that in the articles I've read on it. Everything I've seen indicates it was the university acting on its own. When you take this approach it doesn't take long for people to start dismissing you as a rabid Bush-hater who can't think objectively.

And don't forget: the effective protesters are those who not only fire up their audience to action but actually recommend a useful action to take.

Dude:

Don't worry about those people that tell you to get out of the country.

What's great about the United States is that people can voice a difference of opinion with out worrying about getting persicuted by their government.

You keep on keepin' on and many American's including myself will defend your right to it.

Personally, I love the United States and feel very privileged to live here. I also love our system of government, although I believe that some changes could make it better.(like more than two major parties)

Allan Koeberlin II

Wil,

For what it's worth, I think the recent political entries have been important. They have really spoken to me and been some real inspiration for me and my husband. This is one of those times when I find that I haven't been doing enough to stand up for things I passionately believe in. Thank you for helping me to remember that.

Hey fellow Americans...

Now what's all this ruckus about not trusting your government? If y'all are in doubt then just trust little old me, Bushie Bush. Trust me cause I'm rich. Trust me cause my whole family is rich. Trust me cause the rich always has your best interest at heart. By being rich (especially being born rich) I am compelled to have absolute concern for all you regular folk. Trust the rich because who else is gonna provide you with jobs, homes, and a 401k plan that "in theory" will get you that retirement egg while making the rich even richer from the sales of all those funds that support those lovely 401k plans.

God bless y'all,

Bushie Bush.

The Far Right meets the Far Left!!!

It's amazing how "liberals" are so up in arms about the erosion of our civil rights, yet still remain stalwart supporters of Bill Clinton. Clinton did all kinds of nasty EO kinds of things, plus pushed for more restrictions on other rights, such as the Second Amendment.

Being a "hard-core" Libertarian, I can't help but being amused listening to Liberals bawl like branded cattle, after THEY were the ones arguing for more restrictions on our Civil Rights from 1992-2000. Liberal folks, your hands are NOT clean...

Remember this: The rights you want for yourselves are the exact same rights your opposition gets. Upset about "First Amendment Zones" and want to see them repealed because of the OSU thing? Guess what? That means Operation Rescue can do what they did at abortion clinics before the FAZ doctrine came down. Be careful, lest you be hoisted on your own petard...

Attributed to Voltaire, a suitable thought for today:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

It's only polite.

Truly in the spirit of Voltaire: http://www.theonion.com/onion3211/acludefends.html

Okay. Sorry. Thought that was funny. Actually, just the headline was funny.

Oh, the hell with it.

:-)

Wil,
Well hell, yes I agree with most of what you say and reference. But I like your life stories the best. I can go to what seems like an infinite number of sites to read political commentary but there is only one Wil Wheaton site, where you can read about Feris and geocaching and a story about a maybe standoffish kid that got a slurpee and a ride in the new Golf and "maybe this guy Wil isn't so bad after all", and he knows nothing about your history so this is a real personal experience with a kid for Wil. And you are a sane and nice and kind person. And your stories are good. Ugh on all that political crap. It very seldom makes me feel good about anything at all. Check this out, if you haven't already. http://www.eckharttolle.com/mainpage.htm
John

Is this a hand basket I'm in? Why is it geting so damn hot? Is that George Dub-ya Bush in the corner?

Now I'm not sure what I find more disturbing, the nature of our government or that I, as a young adult, would rather discuss politics then Pac Man.

Oh and for all the poor misguided souls that think Wil should leave the country for having gripes about the American government, grab your passports and I'll see you off at at the gate because if you can't see free speach in action you might as well pull up a nice little corner of Zimbabwe. (nothing personal people of Zimbabwe.)

Thanks, Wil, for speaking your mind and being such an all-around good person.

I find it so humorous (in a sad and sick way) that so many self-defined Republicans are fully behind W. Bush as he attempts to create even more governmental intervention in our lives - all the while dismantling those non-intrusive programs that actually help people in their pursuit of happiness.

Rock on.

P.S. Now if Bill Simon is elected governor, I reserve the right to FREAK OUT and head to the great white north.

This country sucks in a lot of ways but it's still the best country in the world to live in. If people stopped to think about that before they asked you stupid questions like, "why don't you leave if you don't like it here", they wouldn't ask stupid questions like, "why don't you leave if you don't like it here". Makes about as much sense as my post...

You americans are sooo scary, and would be kinda funny if it wasn't so serious. You give your politicians way too much power and credibilitity. Where's the satire and the mocking of these small men, when they all need their egos pricked? In Australia we dont take our politicians nearly as seriously, and they dont dare make as many arrogant and self-important decisions. Well that's the way it used to be, unfortunately we're importing some of the political culture of the US, with less common sense and more selfish, self-serving divisions. In fact, we've currently got a piece of legislation almost as specious as your 'Patriotism Act' before Parliament. Thankfully it's not clothed in as much misplaced, righteous and jingoistic rhetoric as your bill is, and should be defeated/amended.

Three cheers for Wil in bringing some alternative viewpoints to light. Remember kids, you dont have to agree with him, all you have to do is think. And to anyone who suggests he leaves the country, god you're such an idiot, I don't know what to say. Since when did questioning the government become undemocratic?? Please think a little more, or please, don't vote, don't breed.

Oh, and for all of you, the USA ISN'T the worlds greatest democracy. Yeah it's a pretty good one, it's up there with the best of them, but your little embarrassment in Florida a little while back made a mockery of that already inaccurate claim.

Well, that's my morning rant!

You americans are sooo scary, and would be kinda funny if it wasn't so serious. You give your politicians way too much power and credibilitity. Where's the satire and the mocking of these small men, when they all need their egos pricked? In Australia we dont take our politicians nearly as seriously, and they dont dare make as many arrogant and self-important decisions. Well that's the way it used to be, unfortunately we're importing some of the political culture of the US, with less common sense and more selfish, self-serving divisions. In fact, we've currently got a piece of legislation almost as specious as your 'Patriotism Act' before Parliament. Thankfully it's not clothed in as much misplaced, righteous and jingoistic rhetoric as your bill is, and should be defeated/amended.

Three cheers for Wil in bringing some alternative viewpoints to light. Remember kids, you dont have to agree with him, all you have to do is think. And to anyone who suggests he leaves the country, god you're such an idiot, I don't know what to say. Since when did questioning the government become undemocratic?? Please think a little more, or please, don't vote, don't breed.

Oh, and for all of you, the USA ISN'T the worlds greatest democracy. Yeah it's a pretty good one, it's up there with the best of them, but your little embarrassment in Florida a little while back made a mockery of that already inaccurate claim.

Well, that's my morning rant!

Wil (and fellow readers),

As you can see, there are tons more who support you and your right (or duty) to question our government. Carry on!

I agree with what some of the rest of you have said - it's not just a Republican thing or a Democract thing, nor a liberal vs. conservative thing - both major parties have their hands in the pockets of major corporation and take their leads not from their constiuents, but from those who write them checks. Neither are looking out for our interests - just the interests of those who already have money and power.

It's time We The People recognize the power we have and rescue it from their grips. Seriously consider voting for your local and national candidates who represent third parties or are running independantly. Take the time to investigate issues yourselves, become knowledgable, write your congresspeople, senators, and local politicians and let them know how you feel about these issues. You can see by the support here that there are MANY MANY people who feel the same way you do. If we all shared that with our "public servants" perhaps they'd start to listen.

Also - vote with your pocketbook. Become aware of the corporations that are behind the products you buy and the services you use. Invest responsibly in corporations that show they care about more than lining their own pockets.

Sorry if that's preachy. Just wanted to add some constructive advice for those of you looking for a way to ACT on your opinions.

Thanks! (and thanks, Wil, for a fun and interesting site!)

Oops, silly me, I didn't mean to post twice, obviously. And I'm not trying to impersonate Uncle Willy, he just happens to have taken my name. Hey, I'm older than him by a couple of months, his mum was the copycat!

Wil for president!

amen to your friends comments...sometimes we americans forget that's it's our job to make this democracy work...after all we elect these people! and if we don't like what's going on we gotta say so!...and not only that...we gotta tell 'em what we do want! and if they don't deliver...get behind someone else...or run yourself!...and now in regard to pacman...i seem to remember a pacman saturday morning cartoon back in the 80's...it was not as entertaining as some of the other 80's classics..."silverhawks" and "thundercats"......d. burr

I totally concur with what Barry had to say...very wise!

I've always believed that one should vote in ALL elections, no matter how big OR small. This goes for local, state and federal. And, I've also believed that if one chooses NOT to vote, then one has no right to gripe. Apathy gets one no where...

My 2 cents,

Oh...and Wil? You're still okay in my book, even though we may not see eye-to-eye on politics...I really enjoy your stories about your life. I think alot of people can relate...you make it easy. :o )

Take care,

Wil, it takes a lot of courage and love of country to stand up, as you have done, and question what's going on. Readers who turn your posts into a pesonal thing are probably the same ones that think Wesley was a real person. Be above it and keep going.

Good, constructive thoughts from Barry. My vote is the most important thing I've got...and I'm going to be a lot more careful how I use it in the future.

Wil,

We like your web site, but don't turn it into a political soapbox. The fact is your beliefs are in the minority. Whether that's due to the fact that you're a Lakers fan, that you have spent a lot of time near or in Hollyweird, or whatever, that's OK. It's a free country. Just don't make it a daily theme.

Phred

Hey all. I have never been to this site before. I have to say that I love the site and find it awesome that Wil himself actually runs it because I have often wondered why more famous people did not share their own thoughts and instead let his or her image be manufactured. I am writing to inquire about Wil's statement: "I'm upset lately, because I see the current administration trying desperately to unravel those checks and balances, and most people seem to be just fine with that." I am wondering what this is in reference to. I try to stay up on what is going on in the world and with our country, but I honestly didn't know that there was corruption with how things are going in the country now. This post by Wil got a lot of support, so I am hoping someone out there will shed a little light for me on these views. This is not a trap for political arguement, just honest inquiry.

phred since when do u tell wil what to put on his site? Go read other sites if you don't like what this one says.

Your friend is a thinker. Unfortunately, people like that are reviled these days. The whole system is designed to reward idiot sons of idiot sons, and pretty soon the only literature you'll be able to buy with your fat $300 refund check is the Bible. But don't worry, I'm sure it'll be heavily edited so even a moron can draw a wrong conclusion from it...

You go, Wil! ^_^

Those folks who say, "If you don't like it, leave. . ." remind me of people who have said the same thing to me and my younger Catholic friends : "If you keep beefing about the Church, why don't you stop being a Catholic?"

Our answer is that (a) we like being Catholic, (b) we respect the basic tenets of the Church, and (c) no *way* are we going to let narrow-minded, stubborn, and fuddy-duddy clergy and laity drive us away from our faith.

It's the same thing with one's country. Heck, I rant and rave about the lunacies perpetrated by my government; but there's no other place in the world that I would rather call home than the Philippines. Reform can be accomplished from within, all it needs is discipline, political will and the guts to accept the consequences of trying to what's right.

But dear Lord, the things you have to go through to win even one inch of progress in the world today. . .!!

Don't let the bastards get to you, Wil. That's the sort of intimidation that brought the Shrub into power.

Wil,
A while back, when I was in the Navy, I was one who lived by the "love it or leave it" motto. I still believe that BUT I know now that it isn't wise to have blind faith in the powers that be. It isn't always possible to question this Country's leaders while in the military but IT IS EVERY CIVILIANS DUTY to ask WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN and WHY!
While I do not always agree with your politics, I for one, never doubted your love of Country or your Patriotism. If you didn't love you Country or didn't care for what was going on in the world that we are involved in, I do not think that you would be posting your thoughts or feelings here. I do think you are a Patriot for giving a damn and for trying to do something about what you think isn't right.
Don't let the bastards get you down Wil. Shrug it off. Keep your head up and keep fighting for what you believe in!!

Wil, I certainly hope that you did not go mad and start blocking some of the more vocal opponents against you views from your website. I've noticed a unusual number of pro-liberal posts in this Comments section as opposed to previous ones and I have to say, I'm a little disturbed by it.

I'm not as vocal as some of the other conservative leaners, nor do I lean that much most of the time, but I saw the issue regarding the university speech as being something that the school had every right to control. It took place on the campus and from what I remember about college, we would get seriously reprimanded for causing trouble or insulting visiting officials such as these students had planned.

Now I agree that you have the right to ban anyone you want from your website, but if you did so, did you not take away their rights to free speech? It's kinda hard to turn you back on someone on the Internet, so vocalization is really the only alternative. I'm just hoping the others with similar views as myself have not been booted for making waves. I would be very disappointed in you personally if this turns out to be true.

BTW - I realize that many of them resorted to name-calling and insults, but some of the liberal posters did so also. I do not condone any form of personal insult or slander as it gets people no where. I just hope that you didn't pick and choose based on who did or did not agree with your opinion.

Wil, I'm not even certain you'll read this, although I hope you will.

I write an online journal myself, and I can only recommend, as strongly as I possibly can, that you not let others' views influence your voice here. People go to your journal because they find your writing, your journal, of interest -- not just because of your celebrity status. That celebrity may be why many come initially, but what makes readers return is an admiration of your style of expression. That style is enough to singlehandedly turn around many a person's association of you as only the guy who played that awfully annoying cadet on TNG. Chalk me up as one of them. :-)

I have found some people's views expressed in this particular thread rather inducing of anger. I would say, in response and direct contradiction to Phred's comment, that you should speak whatever you like. This is after all, for Christ's sake, your JOURNAL. The purpose of your journal isn't to please the readers, it is to serve as a vehicle for whatever you want to express. And I find Sinkerhawk's comment both disturbing and comic: that a sudden preponderance of "pro-liberal" comments must automatically equate to behind-the-scenes censorship of conservative views? If that isn't paranoia, I don't know what is.

As for your views, I almost hesitate to comment on my own opinion, because political discussion in this country became greatly polarized after the Presidential election of 2000. Yet, I'll go ahead and say them here: I agree with most everything you've said. I DID find myself strongly disagreeing with the article you linked to in The Guardian that compared the New York tragedy to Panama City or Vietnam.

Nevertheless, I too continue to harbor resentment over how George W. Bush became President, simply due to the fact that conservative justices outnumbered by one the liberal justices on the Supreme Court. That is not how the leader of this country ever should have been chosen. It angers me that Bush has been given a lot of 'street cred' simply by virtue of being President during one of the worst tragedies of American history. NOT because he handled the situation particularly adeptly, but simply because he was there.

Most importantly, I find greatly alarming the prevalent belief -- here and elsewhere -- that disagreeing with and criticizing the actions of our President or our country somehow is "wrong." Such silence is antithetical to the democratic ideals that America actually DOES stands for.

"Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism."

Who said that? A guy named Barry Goldwater did, when he accepted the nomination of his party ... the REPUBLICAN Party ... for the Presidency of the United States.

Gee the politics wander in here too.... hmmm.... well, as for Wil possibly silencing some of the commenters.... See there is that little blue ribben on the right side of his page. I don't know if he felt as strongly about it as I did when I had it on mine, but everyone deserves a chance to speak. Wil gets the main page because it is his page (and a good one at that), we get the background pages.

I do wish I still had that blue ribbon, I still feel strongly about it, but I like my job. They thought it was too political and asked me to stop, LOL so I abandoned the site, took the words off and left only the ribbon on the old site. ;) Oh well, everywhere is politics, it has become part of our life.

Speaking of PacMan, we were on the boardwalk in Atlantic City a few days ago and it seems that "they" have now made a slot game out of PacMan. Talk about blasphemy! Yea there were huge banners announcing and proclaiming pacman slots! BAH! They also made a slot game out of The Price is Right. Too ri-goddamn-diculous if you ask me! Also I personally dont like those new slot games which are completely videoized. You know where the spinning things in front of you are not actual circles spinning around but video! Fuck that! I want a real old fashioned one arm bandit! Oh wait was that Bob Dole?! Or GWB in disguise?!

Im sure someone will misinterpret or misunderstand my ramblings and flame me but oh well. :) ;-) 8-P

You have presented no evidence so far that our rights are being infringed upon by, what I am gathering, having the Bush admin pass laws. The only thing I disagree with is the passing of the terrorist act which waives the requirement of a search warrant in the event someone is accused of being a terrorist. While I am sure the CIA and FBI have been going against the constitution to obtain intelligence information, they should continue to do so in that manner. That is because people will abuse the context of the law and how it was written. Soon, petty theft will be considered acts of terror.

But what you're suggesting is that we are doing into a dictatorship with Bush as the dictator. Considering there more than 500 people on capital hill preventing that from happening, I don't know where your bullshit is coming from.

And it's not like we still don't have power to vote people out of office. You're just scared because you think Bush is going to get our hands dirty with foriegn nations. Good. I hope we do. I hope we overthrow China, Iraq, Iran, Saudi, syria, libya, palestine, and France. I hope Tom Dasche dies a slow an painful death. I hope Lieberman dies a slow and painful death that involves him playing video games non stop for 3 days straight without sleep, food, or nurishment. There I am keeping tabs on my government.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
-Thomas Jefferson

My friend maintains a website with liberty quotes:

http://centre.telemanage.ca/

Ok in reply to Hadez:

>While I am sure the CIA and FBI have been going against the constitution to obtain
intelligence information, they should continue to do so in that manner.
>

Until they come for you.
And when they came for me there was no one left to speak for me because I did not speak out at the start.
http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Politics/niemoller.shtml

>Considering there more than 500 people on capital hill preventing that from happening,

Youre assuming these people dont want that to happen. That it doesnt further thier own interests or that they have already allowed Bush to become a Defacto dictator but not in the guise of a traditional dictator.

>I don't know where your bullshit is coming from.

That wasnt nice or an intelligent way of furthering the discussion.

>And it's not like we still don't have power to vote people out of office.

What with the recent presidential/SC debacle, we dont have that power anymore if we ever did. We might as well call Bush "El Presidente". The people dont vote, the electoral college does and they can vote for whoever they want! Also remember that most people dont vote anymore and if they do its for the guy who spends the most on tv advertising. Dont be so naive!

>Good. I hope we do. I hope we overthrow China....and France.

Youve been listening to too much Howard Stern! :)

>I hope Tom Dasche dies a slow an painful death.

Again, too much Howard Stern!

Ok my turn: I hope. Period!

Wil,

At a glance, you seem to project the narrow, bitter views of a political participant still
jaded over an emotional election. But with all that has happened, and with so much controversy over the perceived loss of our freedoms, all I see is someone who has no faith in our political system's ability to challenge and change over time any mistakes made in the face of adversity. I respect your comments and concerns, but I think they are reactionary at best. I would be interested in knowing how much you censor these responses.

Re: Hadez' post:

There's always a silver lining here zmax --he says that "I hope we overthrow China, Iraq, Iran, Saudi, syria, libya, palestine, and France."

He considers Palestine a sovereign nation! If more people of the right-wing persuasion felt this way, we would have a chance of pressuring our government to encourage the parties to find a peaceful solution, rather than deny the existence of a Palestinian state.

Tom Tomorrow's This Modern World features John Ashcroft addressing the issue of Padilla and those who are "unpatriotic."

http://salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/06/17/tomo/index.html

>>>

To the contrary. I am a regular visitor of WWDN. Wil asked me to look at an article, I did. Wil asked me to look at his thoughts and opinions. I did. I disagree with Wil's opinions, so I should take the time to write down why I disagree and explain my own feelings. Then, Wil should read my feelings and opinions, and think about them, same as I thought about his.
It's called education. If one is not willing to listen to both sides of an issue, then one can not have a fully formed position themselves.
One of the greatest high school teachers I ever had once asked us to take a piece of paper and write down one environmental issue that we felt very strongly about. After collecting these papers he then advised us that our next job was to write a paper, taking a stance against that which we had just written down. When the assignment was finished I had gained a better understanding of whom was standing on the other side of the fence. In the end we found that we either felt that much stronger about our original opinion, or perhaps we had begun to understand the other side of the issue and changed our own stance.
What is frightening? When I was in university I took a first year poli sci course. On the first day of class the professor announced that all opinions were welcome in class, except opinions that questioned the holocaust. Never let someone tell you that you shouldn't question what someone else says, or someone else thinks, or something that you read. Asking questions is how we learn.
What is unacceptable is lowering yourself to name calling or rudeness. I saw a lot of rudeness on the board in the last few days, yet I also saw some insightful comments on all sides of the very crooked fence... don't just post, read...don't just talk...listen.

As for the Pacman article. Wow! They mentioned Burger Time. I loved Burger Time! Perhaps an informed discussion as to the merits of Burger Time is in order!

Thanks for listening.

aii yaii yaii....the first line of my above post disappeared....

I was writing in response to an above post which said that "Frankly, if people don't like what you have to say, they don't have to read your site"...

I hope it doesn't disappear again....

Poe said,

"And I find Sinkerhawk's comment both disturbing and comic: that a sudden preponderance of "pro-liberal" comments must automatically equate to behind-the-scenes censorship of conservative views? If that isn't paranoia, I don't know what is."

Even you, Poe, must admit that the ratio of liberal to conservative posts in this Comment Section is much different than in previous ones. You are also hurting your cause by implying that I am a paranoid individual. I would request that you stop using personal attacks to try and get your point across. I never accused Wil of blocking these people, I just said that if he had, I would be disappointed. If he says he did not, then I stand corrected. Considering some of the things that some liberals say that Bush and the people in Washington are doing, I think what I have suggested is well within the range of possibility.

> Even you, Poe, must admit that the ratio of liberal to
> conservative posts in this Comment Section is much
> different than in previous ones.

I don't agree or disagree with your finding; I only disagree with your suggested reason behind it.

> You are also hurting your cause by implying that I am a
> paranoid individual.

I found your comment paranoid. I don't know you, so I wouldn't make that comment about you as a person. As for whether it hurts my "cause", *shrug*, yet another thing we disagree on.

> I would request that you stop using personal attacks
> to try and get your point across.

I would disagree with your characterization of it as a "personal attack."

It was neither personal (my remarks was solely limited to the concept you had expressed, not to personal attributes) nor an attack (it was what I feel was courteous yet assertive disagreement).

Sinkerhawk, feel free to continue this discussion with me privately if you feel it necessary. I'd rather not post the e-mail address outright, in this (rather charged) venue, but my name is a link to my website, upon which you can click on a link to my e-mail address.

Re: right wing recognizing Palestine as a sovereign state.

The right wing more than any wing will support Israel because doing so is in line with Biblical Prophecy (especially New Testement) about the coming revelations. So does that mean that supporting Israel is exclusive of supporting a Palestinian state in the region? I dont see why it has to however what goes on in the heads of those congressmen I dont know. It sounds to me like Bush is pushing for a Palistinian state but of course this is an uphill battle.

Re: taking over other countries including France.

Why stop there?! The silver lining is that we can take over the entire earth and this time unlike tyrants in the past, we can actually do it! Actually I think with capitalistic imperialism we have already taken over the world. No need to use force when marketing and sales and hollywood will suffice!

I believe that America is becoming like the Roman Empire and as such is doomed to fall just like it. No Empire has withstood the test of time and America is very young by historic empire standards. Look at Britian and France. Our country is becoming more monetized and corrupt by the day. The gap between the haves and the have nots has increased more dramatically in the last few years. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This is not a recipie for long term success as a country or an empire.

I hope like many people expressing thier views I am not labeled a traitor or a commie or something! Oh wait just a minute what's that knock at the door? It's the FBI, they want me to come with them now. So see you later. Maybe.

Kevin Phillips, author of Wealth and Democracy: A Political History of the American Rich
http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2002/05/20020523_b_main.asp

The Politics Of Wealth

Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and a fat wallet too. The American dream has always included the right to invent or to invest oneself into the well-padded life of the moneyed class. But now, author Kevin Phillips argues, the dream has turned to nightmare, and democracy itself is at risk.

The last twenty years has seen one of the greatest concentrations of wealth in history, and it didn’t happen by accident. Government has been seduced and successfully bedded by corporate interests.

The result is a dangerous love child called Plutocracy and a system that bends over backwards to provide the rich with tax breaks and special concessions, while leaving millions of poor Americans hanging without a safety net. Free markets, free reign, free people?

There are more impingements on your freedom in this country from environmentalist wackos than from the U.S. government trying to fight terrorism. We have two cultures in this country, and thank God for one of them. One part of the country is very serious about the threat we face, and another part of the country is living in the world of Ozzy Osbourne.

This is one of the most serious threats the country has ever faced. Yet, because of the hard work of a number of people, most of us are able to go about our lives as though nothing happened on September 11th.

The people of this country have a tremendous trust that the government is doing what they say they're doing and that their goals and objectives are legitimate. They're trying to protect the law-abiding citizens in this country from another attack.

Poe, In order to make a seriously paranoid statement, the person making the statement would have to be paranoid. I did take this as a way to make me into some drooling-mad conservative (which I am not) to make others disregard my position. If this is not what you intended to do, I accept that and apologize. This is just how I percieved it.

This is Wil's website, he has the right ban opposing views, but I would find it rather hypocritical. Again, I never said that that is what he did. I was only asking him if this was the case. I'm not at all mad or upset, I just thought it was rather odd.

As to emailing you directly, I don't see why this is necessary. I am asking Wil an honest question and I feel like your giving me the third degree about it. I believe I've been very open, honest, and polite about this situation and hope I can get the same in return. I would greatly appreciate it.

Wil, here's an idea - go up to one of the widows of 9-11, or maybe one of the children that lost one or both of their parents and say, "So sorry, but you should feel better knowing that not one terrorist's rights was violated to prevent this disaster"

I'm sure they would be very grateful to hear that...

Wil,

You most definately have the right, and the obligation to question your government. Without constant analysis and adaptation, nothing can advance, and when countries fail to adapt they fall.

I liked zmax's comment about the US being like the Roman Empire. As a Classical Historian and a Canadian (having an outside view of these events), the analogy is a very good one. The Romans were powerful, more so than any other civilization of their time - there is no doubt of the USA's military and cultural supremacy. The Romans felt that it was their right to control the world, and while America may not feel exactly the same, there is a feeling of obligation to police the world. (however noble or ignoble that may be). But, Rome did fall, in part due to corruption from within.

Perhaps I am a cynic, and perhaps I am paranoid, but how do we *know* what happens outside our doors? We have no choice but to trust the media, sources unavoidably biased in any situation. If the media collectively decides to lie about something, we have no way of knowing about it unless someone admits to it. Think about it. They colour our thoughts and opinions without most people even knowing it. I would be willing to put a small wager that many of Wil's opponents were opponents because of their unwavering belief in the things that they have heard as the truth.

The Bush administration has scared me from early on in his electoral campaign - ever since I heard that he believed our Prime Minister was named after a French-Canadian french fry dish (Jean Poutine). And we're your neighbours! In interviews he repeatedly failed to identify foreign leaders. THAT is scary for the leader of the most powerful country in the world. Perhaps it is my own bias that causes me little surprise when laws are passed to negate people's freedoms in the name of fighting terrorism. Again and again I have feared for your country and the world. If you who believe he is not keeping the best interests of America at heart speak up, things like this can, and will, be stopped. Terrorism will be stopped, whether by military action or by eventual changes in foreign policy.

And Wil? If you ever decide you're sick of people telling you to move and you give in, consider Canada. Same freedoms, similar culture, prettier money, more laid-back attitude, and a government who can't threaten to take away any of our rights without widespread public furor.

::sips antacid::

Ok.

I have read the seemingly endless posts here accusing others of trying to supress Wil's right to "question the government". Let me say this clearly: No one posting here is telling Wil he doesn't have a right to question what actions our government has taken. Everyone has the right to question their government - it is very necessary to check and rethnk what the US is doing.

But let me ask you this; when do you reach a resolution? When do you stop questioning the government out of habit, think about all sides of an issue, and come to an answer whether or not our government's actions are justified? Why is no one taking a firm stance and stating clearly exactly what they think the government is doing wrong, and their reasons for believing it? Why has almost no one offered their ideas for a realistic alternative to the war on terrorism?

It seems that before you come out to question the government, sit down and carefully think if the benfits outweight the sacrifices. All I see is a whole lot of criticism and questions but few reasons, answers, and solutions.

People here seem to be focusing so much on the issue of Wil's "right to question" while spending less time weighing the benefits, downsides, and necessities of the war on terrorism.

It seems to me that questioning someone's actions or policies feels weak unless you can offer solid answers and solutions of your own to the problem we all face together.

Seems to me that Thomas Jefferson said something to that effect, that it was the responsibility of every citizen to watch over the government to ensure our leaders stay honest and never get too much power.

Wil I forgot to add something. I have been reading your site for a while now and I really like the things you have to say. When you bare your soul like this others will undoubtably use it against you. I think you need to take a page from a Tom Cruise movie. Yes I know but I remember how liberating it was when I learned to use this attitude in my life. Just say to yourself "What the fuck!" What the fuck is very liberating. It lets you not care so much about what the idiots of the world say about you. Personally, I liked Wesley, thought dodgeball was shitty, admire you for loving your step kids, and applaud you for standing up for what you believe. So for those who think you are wrong or unAmerican for stating your opinions, what the fuck.

> In order to make a seriously paranoid statement, the
> person making the statement would have to be paranoid.

Your words, not mine; your assumption, not mine; your beliefs, not mine.

> I did take this as a way to make me into some drooling-
> mad conservative (which I am not) to make others disregard
> my position.

Your words, not mine; your assumption, not mine; your beliefs, not mine.

> This is Wil's website, he has the right [to] ban opposing
> views, but I would find it rather hypocritical. Again, I
> never said that that is what he did.

It's a fairly serious charge to levy even in the hypothetical. It's like someone saying, "Wil, if you molest your kids, it's a bad thing." You want to blink, shake your head, and look at the person and say, "Why the fuck would you say that? Even in the hypothetical?"

> As to emailing you directly, I don't see why this is necessary.

To take prolonged disagreement out of the public arena, where it is often unwelcome.

> I am asking Wil an honest question and I feel like your

You're.

> giving me the third degree about it.

Well, I'm stating my disagreement about this, because, as I said above, it's a fairly serious charge to levy even in the hypothetical.

> hope I can get the same in return. I would greatly
> appreciate it.

Frankly, I don't think I've been impolite.

Banning opposing viewpoints = molesting children.
Exactly where are you from?

And I guess you feel very good about yourself pointing out spelling errors. I guess when the arguements run out, you have to grasp for something, right. I have been more than civil to you, but I guess in the real world, people like you really exist.

Seeing that you do not want to continue an intelligent or meaningful conversation, I have nothing further to say to you.

To everyone else, I want to humbly apologize for this entire incident. It is becoming apparent that holding a decent, respectful conversation on this site is just impossible.

Wil, I love ya (in a brotherly soft of way, of course), but this board is getting to be a "basher's only" party. I will continue to read your main page, but I think I'll refrain from using you comments section until you can clean out the ruder guests so that we can have a decent discussion.

"I liked zmax's comment about the US being like the Roman Empire."

Oh yes it was such an original analogy. I have never heard it before. :P Hate to tell you skippy, but if America falls, the world falls. We really hold that much power.

"As a Classical Historian"

Judging by your writing style and lack of original thought, your weekends at Barnes and Noble have been fruitless in becoming a "classical historian",you fucking hack.

Zmax's comment comparing the US to ancient Rome may not be original but that doesn't mean there is no truth to it. Eventually the US will not be as powerful and dominating as it is now. That could happen tomorrow, in 5 years, 100 years or longer. We know this and its been said before. Still, it may not be a bad thing to say it again every so often. Afterall, being more advanced & having so much history to learn from, we can certainly take actions to make that fall hurt a lot less than it hurt past empires/dominating powers. We (as US citizens) also have a hand in determining just how long it will take -as well as how it will happen. We could be arrogant, pompous, self-important asses whose only concern is about ourselves and piss off the rest of the world so much that they come together to kick our asses & take over (one by one we could likely take them, but all at once?). Or, we can stop w/ the megalomaniacal tirades and work w/ the rest of the world and there will be no single dominating nation (I'm working with the idea that other nations also manage to deal w/ their own problems in an intelligent way & are just as willing to work together). The unity idea is possible, although the probability may be questionalbe. It would take generations (sadly, the more violent, more painful & destructive way wouldn't take so long & the probability may be higher).
As for what will happen to the rest of the world when the US falls -I don't know. It could be disasterous, especially for those who are too dependent on us (for whatever various reasons that may be) & for those who don't think about these things. I suppose it depends on how & when the US falls. I also don't think all other nations are so weak, some are but perhaps Great Britain, other western European nations, Canada would be ok. It depends on the circumstances.
Sometimes I see steps being taken by all the powerful nations working together for the greater good of all people. Again, this is all possible but the probability may be questionable. Its good zmax & others mention this stuff -occassionally- and remind us of possibilities that could become probabilities if we don't do something now. What that something is, I'm not sure. I'm thinking about it. More importantly, are our leaders thinking about it?
I read on Op-Ed article in the NY Times, something a friend pointed out to me. I read it & thought it was interesting, here is a link to that article, please read it -the rest of my post won't make much sense if you don't (warning, the writer's bias is obvious, some may not like his 1st sentence, when he says the Bush administration, one could easily say the Reagan, Bush 1 or Clinton admin, too, just please look beyond that to the important part of the article) http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/18/opinion/18KRIS.html
One of my 1st thoughts was that ratifying the treaty the article discusses is ONE of the VARIOUS alternative methods to "fight" terrorist. I'm not going to spell out how that will work, please read the article and no matter if one is a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green or Progressive, if you think about it, you will understand. Again, its ONE thing, maybe you might think its a very small thing but its still something.
BTW: I'm not saying there is no place or time for military action in presenting this alternative. It would be better if we (the whole world) could get things done w/o wars, battles & such. Unfortunately its not so. Even w/ treaties such as that discussed in the NYTimes article, military action my occassionally be necessary to enforce such treaties/laws. There are legitimate concerns regarding how much force, when to use it, who specifically against, does it go too far, when does it stop, is there another way before we send in the soldiers, are we in fact breaking the laws we intend to enforce, if so can we go about this a different way so we don't have to act hypocritically, what are the consequences at home & abroad?
And, Wil, I'm sorry to hear that some have emailed you saying ridiculous things like "love it or leave it". Please don't be discouraged by such things.

Wil,
First of all the "love it or leave it" mentality is laughable considering that you are practicing your right to free speech. Why some people can't accept that you can disagree with the current (or any) administration is sad. For the record I have had problems with every administration that has been around during my lifetime, but this one is the most frightening because we have a president who has been granted vast, sweeping powers via the Emergency Powers Act. Sure the war on terrorism is serious, but tossing out our values and our rights to "win" is self defeating. What's left to defend when its all been done away with?
A poster above stated that nobody is thinking about better options for the war on some terrorists. I say some because we are only after the ones that have upset us. If we really wanted to end terrorism we would cut off all their suppliers and prevent them all from buying weapons. This means Russia and France and the US need to stop selling weapons to any and all of the combatants in the region. If we really truly wanted peace we would stop supporting Israel and get out of the middle east. Let them fight their jihads, just leave us out. We have always propped up Israel as "the good guys" when they are as vicious and brutal as the Palestinians. Jenim comes to mind, and so does the attack on the USS Liberty, an american intelligence gathering ship that was attacked without provocation by Israel during the six days war. Guess they didn't want anyone knowing just what they were doing with the guns, tanks and planes we sold and gave to them huh? Good guys my ass. I honestly do not think that any of the nations in that region are worth the lives lost on 9-11. I don't think they're worth any more american lives either.
Speaking of 9-11, I blame our government for the deaths of those people as much as I blame the terrorists themselves. Although I don't think the full truth as to how much informaton was neglected to be acted upon will ever come out, I will never be able to rid myself of the feeling that if the FBI, CIA, and NSA did their jobs properly instead of in their usual short sighted and bumbling manner then 9-11 could have been prevented or at least minimized. But, well never know. After all we will probably never hear any more about the phoenix memo or the intercepted transmissions or the reluctance of one agency to fully disclose information to another agency because (a) the hearings are behind closed doors (b) a former CIA director is heading up the investigation and (c) everybody got all up in arms over the "dirty bomb" suspect, who was apprehended well over a month ago, yet pops up at this time as "breaking news". Nice red herring. It looks to me like the USA Patriot bill and all the other edicts issued forth from Homeland Defense and the Justice Department aren't really necessary if only they did their jobs right the first time. Our lack of vigilance as a people have led us straight into this situation. I have so much more to say on the issue, especially concerning where I feel we went wrong concerning the Middle East in the first place but I don't have time to get into it right now. Always question, it is more than your right it is your responsibility as a citizen and as a taxpayer. I would say we can change it all during the next election, but the last one left me questioning the effectiveness of trying to "rock the vote". Besides if Dubya wants to call off the next election because of the current state of emergency he can thanks to the Emergency Powers Act.

Geez, Frankie, what's your problem? I was merely stating my opinion, and that's what this whole topic is about.

I had not heard the US=Roman Empire analogy before. I am not American, perhaps that limits the comments about America that I get to hear. Regardless, *I* thought it was interesting and valid. And I never suggested that if America fell the world wouldn't have trouble. I'm sure many other countries, including my own, wouldn't last more than a few months. For the moment, America is a stable country - I for one would like to see it stay that way - and it will only stay stable if you Americans take responsability for the actions of their government both now and in the future. You're the only ones who can do it.

As for the classical historian jab, I actually do write historical fiction set it the ancient world - which is when the Roman Empire happened, in case you didn't know. If you'd like to see my diploma, I could scan it for you =p

Dale, stop drinking the antacid. It makes your breath smell funny, and that won't do in the recieving line.

"Dale, stop drinking the antacid. It makes your breath smell funny, and that won't do in the recieving line."

Yes, dear. I have sent our wedding registery to the star trek experience store and the sharper image. Our wedding gifts will rule.

To Hops,

Fuck you cocksucker. Jump off a building so we can gaze at your flattened, bloody corpse.

Phred

Just some thoughts. Some of them might even be questions...
Why is it that so many are assuming that anyone who is concerned about Civil Rights is trying to protect terrorists? We're not, you know. We just want to ensure that the systems that are put in place to stop terrorism are not used to dump on those people who are not terrorists. If I follow the above posts correctly, if I were accused of being a terrorist (even if Im not one), then I could be arrested without warrant and held without trial. Just wait...sooner or later someone will try and shout "WITCH!"...and itll be Salem all over again.

Whats this whole "love it or leave it" crap? The reason Wil continues to post anit-Bush liberal messages, is precisely because he doesnt want that Mentaly Impaired Gunbunny screwing up the country that Wil loves so much. you guys have a Constitution, Bill of Rights...the whole shebang..don't let those rights vanish while your not looking. Jeez.

people have scoffed about "liberals whining about a police state". Yup. Thats right, we are. Why? There is no police state in America...yet. We'd like it to stay that way. Thats why we are up in arms NOW, rather than later. Okay?

Some quotes.
"Nothings changed, the Senate is still corrupt, the Emperor Remains insane" - Otep

"Go back to bed America, your Government has worked it out. We are in control, America. Go back to bed. Heres American Gladiators and Pizza, we have worked it out. You are free, to do as we tell you. You are free, to do as we tell you." -Bill Hicks, on Government Propoganda.

Chow

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