I'm glad to see someone else out there who feels completely like I do. Thanks for your words.

Sincerely,

Melody

i am so sad!

Same here. I'm scared, too.

Gått te helvete!

I'm trying not to be too fatalistic, but I fear that you're right. I've posted a few comments on my own site and a comment Russ Beattie's blog in response to his post, http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook. The fact that this president will likely choose several Supreme Court justices is HUGE and makes me the most ill. I'll let my other posts speak for themselves. It's not a good day.

Wil,

I voted for Bush, so of course I believe that the next four years will not be a disaster, though I don't think they will be a new Golden Age either. If 9/11 had happened I would probably not have voted for Bush again.

By conceding, Kerry showed that he has the best interests of the country at heart. I hope Bush will show Kerry supporters that he does, as well.

Graham

I am sorry for your country today Wil. I've been watching the election with growing horror as the results have slowly been coming in. I find it amazing that the majority of America not only is allowing Bush's hate crimes, for there is no other way to describe his actions in my mind, but condoning them by allowing him another term.

I fear for the United States, and the rest of the world.

Congratulations America! It's your country and you can do damn well what you like with it.

Why do you think Bin Laden gave George a free boost just in time for the election?

Do you think the US President will still be the Leader of the Free World in 4 years time?

Will the free world still look for the USA for leadership?

Indeed, will the free world still include the USA?

The next race is going to be interesting. Certainly the candidates will have to be much more radically different than they have been this time. Perhaps Hillary vs. Arnold?

hey, I was wondering if someone could help me out...

About the military draft that Bush is trying to impose on the US... I have a green card (resident alien), but am living currently in another country... If there is a draft, could I be drafted, cause if I could be, then the green card is going immediately in the trash ;)

Oh, and btw, the people of Iceland were very sad to hear that Bush was reelected... I think over 90% of the people here wanted Kerry to win.

I wore all black today because it doesn't feel like an election, more like a funeral. Or worse, an execution. I mourn for the future of this country and the world. My shirts says, "Oops I went to Hell" and that's exactly how I felt when I woke up this morning.

It's over and the nightmare continues. CNN announced that Kerry concedes to Bush. On top of which, eleven states have pass laws to ban same-sex marriage (and in many cases even the hope of civil unions).

Thanks for speaking out and for speaking your mind. We need more of that in this day and age. As a gay man, I'm just sorry that I get relegated to the back of the bus -- again.

i feel the same way - very shocked & stunned. as cheesy as it is, i am most sorry my kids, who will be stuck with the mess the next four years brings.

You have summed up my feelings completely.

I just don't even know where to go from here.

I wasn't vocal enough in this election. I need to change that. I need to change -things- before my basic liberties are taken away.

(Hmm...first post, gotta make this good...)
Well, honestly Will, I disagree with you. But that is the wonderful thing about our country, we can disagree and not be in fear of persecution. I've always believed that you will get exactly what you expect of someone. If you expect that the next four years are going to be a nightmare, then your experience of the next four years will be exactly that. I am not crazy about Bush myself, but I want to believe positively in hopes that things will improve. Just my thoughts. Thanks for letting me share.

What if...
I'm thinking, probably naively:

What if most of the Bush voters are actually not that different from most of the Kerry voters? What if they don't "hold a fundamentally different set of values", or are not morons (as I saw suggested on dailykos), or are not evil and deluded (as yet others seem to be saying)?

What would have to be true for them (ie. somone very much like you) to vote Bush? What would you need to do to change their mind?

It's not as bad as all that. I think a VERY VOCAL FEW have managed to demonise Bush to the point that I don't think his mother would vote for him, having listened to the rhetoric.

But it looks like the EBs and (unlike last time) the majority, didn't feel the same way. like it or lump it, that's the system we've chosen to live by.

I figgured changing direction on 'the war' mid stream would be a bad thing.

What I DO NOT like about this system is: You've gotta take all of the bad with the good. I don't care for Bush's views on religion, 'morals', abortion, etc, but I feel he HAS shown the ability to make some necessary, if unpopular, decisions that had to be made.

Try not to get too worried about what Bush _may_ do, he's got a bunch of Senators, Congressmen, a Judicial system, and a pretty well written couple of documents to keep him in check.

I'm departing the reality-based community for the fantasy-based community. I take up studies as a half-elven sorceror starting now.

They will reap the whirlwind.

Wil, I don't think you can call it a national nightmare if the majority of the population votes in support of Bush and his policies. I try to stay out of the comments of your political posts since I don't share the same political views, so I'm not trying to start trouble. Don't take this the wrong way, but it seems that the area you live in feels opposite the way a majority of the country feels.

I was told by Bush supporters today that Kerry scares them because he is a strong supporter of the draft. Bush scares me but I can't like Kerry for supporting the draft either.

I was told by Bush supporters today that Kerry scares them because he is a strong supporter of the draft. Bush scares me but I can't like Kerry for supporting the draft either.

Try not to get too worried about what Bush _may_ do, he's got a bunch of Senators, Congressmen, a Judicial system, and a pretty well written couple of documents to keep him in check.

Actually, this is what scares me the most: the GOP has control of all the branches of government. There is nobody to check or balance the Bush Administration.

We're all gonna wind up taking it in the teeth for this one, mark my words.

Four more years of Nehemiah Scudder - whee!

'Moral values' my ass; tell my friends who jobs went to Bangalore about 'moral values', or the uninsured sick and injured that I see all the time on EMS calls.

Oh well, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway...

Sigh...

ob Onion article: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/BushNightmare.htm

A Fucking Men.

I can't shake this sence of dread.

I looked at the Oliver Willis piece and you picked out the wrong part to focus on. It was what he said about Howard Dean that was the most important.

"You may not agree with him, but where he stood was clear."

This is was killed John Kerry. He didn't stand for anything and was never clear.

If the Democrats had run Howard Dean or someone else who had a clear idea of who he was, then Bush wouldn't have won.

Ben Franklin said "The people pretty much get the government they deserve", or something like that.

And you're right Wil, it is the beginning. But I see it less as a nightmare (though I understand the sentiment) and more of an opportunity.

The political process in this country is broken. It cannon't be fixed. The Democrat party is trying so hard not to piss-off the oxymoronic Moral Majority that they no longer stand for anything.

Republicans have been hijacked by the ultraconservative fundamentalists, a hugely powerful voting block, and remain convinced that babies will be ripped from the womb and their great-grandparents marrige will be annulled if Karl Rove is out of a job.

Things have to change. Perhaps in a few months, when the shit really starts to hit the proverbial fan, folks will remember this and start working on a new tomorrow which has NOTHING to do with the politics of old.

I didn't vote for Bush or Kerry, but I think the reason Kerry lost is because too many people voted for him for the wrong reason(s)...ie, simply to get Bush out, and not because they supported him. The Universe is crazy like that.

Can't say I'm at all pleased with so many states passing measures to ban gay marriages. Last time I checked, America was supposed to be a free country where people could do what they wanted, provided they weren't hurting anyone else.

Gay marriages certainly don't hurt anyone except the ignorant. Seems we have a lot of ignorant people in America, more so than I would like.

Land of the Free, indeed.

Wil, I thank you for having the eloquence and courage to post what a lot of us (former?) monkeyboxers are feeling today. I moved to Canada recently for a job, but I can't be any more grateful to be in a place where I find that a lot of my values are reflected in the way people treat each other here. I am so saddened by this election because the country I once loved is changing for the worse (I believe). It's like watching your best friend self-destruct, and you can't do anything to stop it. I guess the best we can do is to try to look for that elusive silver lining. I'll let you know if I can find it.

I know, Wil. It's devastating and absolutely inconceivable to me that SO many people have actually voted for this man. After everything that's happened in the last year, I just don't understand how this could have happened again....

the only positive that will come from this: bush will have to clean up his mess himself, and not rely on others... kerry cannot be blamed in 2008, when military and allied civilian deaths pass into the tens of thousands... kerry cannot be blamed for an economy that targets the wealthy and leaves behind a larger lower class... kerry cannot be blamed for more countries around the world believing the US has abrogated its position as a world leader in science and diplomacy...

what scares me even more, to be honest, is that as many as four supreme court justices may be replaced by bush... as a gay person who knows how to think, i'm seriously tempted to move to another continent, and live free (if illegally)...

the people want to feel good, instead of doing good. the people appear to want someone who would be nice at the dinner table, tell a good joke, and party until morning... the people appear to want someone who doesn't threaten their beliefs or their intelligence.

the US has just elected someone it deserves... it makes me sad...

Madison is winning today.

Jefferson just rolled another 180 degrees.

I feel your pain.

Well, Wil, if things just get too ugly for you down in the US, we could keep a spot open for you in Canada... :-)

But yeah, I can't believe that Bush won. Your country is frightening me. :-(

I've spent the entire morning alternately crying and numb.

I've never been so emotionally and physically invested in an election in my life. I feel betrayed by all those people who said they supported Kerry but didn't bother voting.

And I am terrified for our country in the next four years.

I feel like a ship that has just entered the doldrums - how a mobilized political campaign that gave me hope at a better future for our children lost all its wind so quickly I'll never know.

As I wander the halls today I hear conservative friends talk about how they feel safer with GWB in the White House, and I just want to scream at the top of my lungs "don't you understand that he's the one who made you feel unsafe in the first place!" Then I realize how useless it all feels today - and I take a look around..

So here we sit in the doldrums - waiting for the next breeze

Let me see if I understand this correctly. Is our national concept supposed to be:
"Fuck the old, fuck education, fuck our soldiers, fuck future generations, fuck civil liberties, fuck health care... just don't let them faggots get married!"

I mean, REALLY? We don't hold a President accountable for what he's done, we don't care that we'll be mired in Iraq for another 3-5 years (if that's all), we don't want a quality education system, and we don't care about reducing our debt. The ONLY issue that matters to us is homosexual marriages? Honestly... by banning gay marriage, and if (when) abortion gets outlawed, will that make our Country a good place to live? Please.

Besides... how can anyone be so arrogant as to believe that a) They know what G-d wants, and b) G-d wants what they want?

I am dismayed and disheartened by the people who are commenting who do not understand the graveness of what happened yesterday.

Bush is in office and the GOP has complete control of the government.

If you can't fathom what that means, people, then you deserve the fucking idiot you re-elected.

In response to your comment, "Apparently, my country holds a fundamentally different set of values than I thought we did, and that scares the shit out of me."

That is exactly how I feel. I don't feel angry at Bush so much as I am angry at the hating fundamentalist simpletons who evidently make up the bulk of this country. Like I don't belong here.

Ben Franklin said "The people pretty much get the government they deserve", or something like that.

And you're right Wil, it is the beginning. But I see it less as a nightmare (though I understand the sentiment) and more of an opportunity.

The political process in this country is broken. It cannon't be fixed. The Democrat party is trying so hard not to piss-off the oxymoronic Moral Majority that they no longer stand for anything.

Republicans have been hijacked by the ultraconservative fundamentalists, a hugely powerful voting block, and remain convinced that babies will be ripped from the womb and their great-grandparents marrige will be annulled if Karl Rove is out of a job.

Things have to change. Perhaps in a few months, when the shit really starts to hit the proverbial fan, folks will remember this and start working on a new tomorrow which has NOTHING to do with the politics of old.

I've spent the entire morning alternately crying and numb.

I've never been so emotionally and physically invested in an election in my life. I feel betrayed by all those people who said they supported Kerry but didn't bother voting.

And I am terrified for our country in the next four years.

the only positive that will come from this: bush will have to clean up his mess himself, and not rely on others... kerry cannot be blamed in 2008, when military and allied civilian deaths pass into the tens of thousands... kerry cannot be blamed for an economy that targets the wealthy and leaves behind a larger lower class... kerry cannot be blamed for more countries around the world believing the US has abrogated its position as a world leader in science and diplomacy...

what scares me even more, to be honest, is that as many as four supreme court justices may be replaced by bush... as a gay person who knows how to think, i'm seriously tempted to move to another continent, and live free (if illegally)...

the US has just elected someone it deserves... it makes me sad...

Right on, Wil - I hear those comments and echo them back a hundred-fold. What scares me the most is the appointments on the supreme court that are coming up. With Renquist out and at least one other appointment coming in this term, Bush could completely change the composition of the court. This is the high supreme court, mind you, the one that sets precedents such as Roe v Wade. I don't want to be around when all three branches (White House, House and Senate, AND Supreme Court) are controlled by Bush's particular brand of "compassionate conservatism." I too, am very scared.

But on the other hand, it is only four years. I for one am looking forward to 2008.

I'm going to get back to packing now.

I've spent the entire morning alternately crying and numb.

I've never been so emotionally and physically invested in an election in my life. I feel betrayed by all those people who said they supported Kerry but didn't bother voting.

And I am terrified for our country in the next four years.

Wil,

I am busy putting my own thoughts together on this as well (feel free to read them as linked below). I agree with you - I feel like I've awakened in a foreign land where most people have a wildly different belief system. I truly am afraid, but it is nice to know there are some out there who think the way I do. But make no mistake - this was a resounding victory for Christian Evangelicals. And, I truly believe there will be a war in Iran before 2006. My country, tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I weep . . .

Jeff

Wil, I don't think you can call it a national nightmare if the majority of the population votes in support of Bush and his policies.

Just because the majority of a populace believe something doesn't make it right. I completely agree with Will. I feel as though we're in for a horrific nightmare. The majority of the populace has endorsed Bush's 'moral' campaign of lies and bloodshed, and it's enough to make me vomit. Everywhere in America the GOP has been given free reign. The gaps in the Senate and House only grew larger, like Bush's margin of victory. It's a sad, sad day.

There is NO draft, there isn't going to be a draft.
Stop believing everything you hear from left-wing
media and get informed. You have been lied to
in order to further the Kerry agenda and tarnish
Bush's. REPEAT: THERE WILL BE NO DRAFT. If you
believe otherwise, you are delusional.

Nice going there. And for the rest of world let me just say "SAVE US JEBUS"

I never thought SO MANY people could possibly stand beside Bush and declare that he is the right man with the right policies to represent our country. At least I'm in a state that wanted Kerry and gave him the electorals we had, so I know that my vote helped in that respect. Now is not the time to fall weeping to our knees, though. Oh, I cried alright, and I'm devastated and scared, too. But, we can't let this defeatist attitude wash over us and sleep for another 4 years until our next perceived chance. If anything good comes from Bush's victory, I think it'll be increased activism that follows in its wake. Don't give up and threaten to move to Canada, folks! Find ways to continue the good fight.

I have to agree with Hannah who posted earlier. It's the self fulfilling prophecy. Expect four years of woe and misery and you'll end up with woe and misery. There are still battles to win folks. Make sure your Senators and Congressperson know how you feel on those inevitable Bush nominess to the Supreme court. Make sure they know how you feel on all those environmental issues. Trade policies. Crime Bills. Economic incentives (tax cuts/increases). Speak up. Don't Whisper. Make sure your heard and those around you are heard. Keep that voter turn out momentum going. Your candidate may not have won but that doesn't mean we have to lose. And if all else fails we can declare Jihad. That'll get their attention.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. Is our national concept supposed to be:
"Fuck the old, fuck education, fuck our soldiers, fuck future generations, fuck civil liberties, fuck health care... just don't let them faggots get married!"

I mean, REALLY? We don't hold a President accountable for what he's done, we don't care that we'll be mired in Iraq for another 3-5 years (if that's all), we don't want a quality education system, and we don't care about reducing our debt. The ONLY issue that matters to us is homosexual marriages? Honestly... by banning gay marriage, and if (when) abortion gets outlawed, will that make our Country a good place to live? Please.

Besides... how can anyone be so arrogant as to believe that a) They know what G-d wants, and b) G-d wants what they want?

I never thought SO MANY people could possibly stand beside Bush and declare that he is the right man with the right policies to represent our country. At least I'm in a state that wanted Kerry and gave him the electorals we had, so I know that my vote helped in that respect. Now is not the time to fall weeping to our knees, though. Oh, I cried alright, and I'm devastated and scared, too. But, we can't let this defeatist attitude wash over us and sleep for another 4 years until our next perceived chance. If anything good comes from Bush's victory, I think it'll be increased activism that follows in its wake. Don't give up and threaten to move to Canada, folks! Find ways to continue the good fight.

I have a 40-something liberal friend who is opposed to Bush on almost every issue. But she voted for him. Why? Because his brother, Jeb, is the governor here in Florida, and she thinks that having a governor who's tight with the prez means extra special treatment for Florida. Yeah, right.

My grandmother has a friend who said that she "had" to vote for Bush. Grandma asked why, and the friend said, "Well, because the Catholic Church told me to!" Grandma tried to explain that a vote is an individual expression of choice and opinion and shouldn't be dictated by religion, but the friend wasn't swayed.

People are sheep. Thanks to the mass society that TV helped to introduce 50 years ago, we are all trained to get our news from 9-second sound bites and late-night talk shows. Gone are the days when most people read 2 newspapers a day (morning and evening) to get full coverage of the issues. People are vehement in their support of opinions that they formed based on little or no information, and most will fight for their right to vote those opinions.

Democracy is good, but the throngs of people who don't know enough and don't care to know it scare me.

People turned out in droves, and they drive the nation. So here we are.

Canada, anyone?

I am dismayed and disheartened by the people who are commenting who do not understand the graveness of what happened yesterday.

Bush is in office and the GOP has complete control of the government.

If you can't fathom what that means, people, then you deserve the fucking idiot you re-elected.

Wil, I'm with you on this one. While driving across country during the summer, I mentioned to several people that I live in New York City...and THREE times (in Wyoming, Nebraska, and Indiana) people asked me how I could live there and wasn't I afraid because of all the terrorist attacks. They believed, because they have been told, that NYC is constantly under attack, that the United States even is constantly under attack. Politics aside, that's just scary.

Take heart...I can only hope(naively, I'm sure, but...) that those who do not agree with this administration will try to not allow it to destroy our country.

We're all in deep shit now !!!!!

Don't let the despair and fear get to you. DO NOT. Let it change. Let the anger come out to fuel you for the fight to make things RIGHT. Do everything in your power to effect change. Don't just let it run over you. You're strong. You can do this.

Wil, you have a power through this medium like no other person. You have a following that is beyond anything I've seen. Help to get this change started and help fuel it with your passion, your drive, your incredible words.

My email address is listed in the comment (I hope). If you want some help in NorCal, toss me a message. I'll do what I can.

-- J --

Wil, I'm with you on this one. While driving across country during the summer, I mentioned to several people that I live in New York City...and THREE times (in Wyoming, Nebraska, and Indiana) people asked me how I could live there and wasn't I afraid because of all the terrorist attacks. They believed, because they have been told, that NYC is constantly under attack, that the United States even is constantly under attack. Politics aside, that's just scary.

Take heart...I can only hope(naively, I'm sure, but...) that those who do not agree with this administration will try to not allow it to destroy our country.

I am literally sick. I have been crying since Kerry conceded.
Traces of hope for our country...my faith in Americans all gone with 4 years' and one day's dirty work. How could Americans truly want 4 more years of the worst economy, the worst standing in the eyes of the world?
I am grieving.
I guess there is still a chance we can get him impeached. But there must be solidarity among us...and never have I seen America so divided.
My husband says I am an egoist who cannot see that anyone could have a different point of view than I do. I don't think that is true, I just am sick that so many Americans buy the stuff that the Bush Admin has been selling wholesale to cover their blatant abuses and attrocities. When I put myself in in a Bush supporters' shoes and thoughts, I find that the space that they occupy gives me claustrophobia... a place where fear, not hope or wisdom, governs your thoughts and decisions. That is where the Bush people want us to live, and I find it very hard to stomach.

I am dismayed and disheartened by the people who are commenting who do not understand the graveness of what happened yesterday.

Bush is in office and the GOP has complete control of the government.

If you can't fathom what that means, people, then you deserve the fucking idiot you re-elected.

Our government was set up as a system of checks and balances to keep one group from gaining too much power, now all Bush has is a check and check system. We can wave goodbye to Roe V. Wade, wave good bye to equality for the other than hetero., and if we're not careful girls, wave goodbye to the 19th Amendment. I am stunned by the loss and as I dressed my girls this morning, I was already grieving over the choices they won't get to make in their lifetimes. Then I looked at the globe sitting on the shelf, it's a big world out there...and Bush is not in power everywhere....hmmmmmm...Dragon

I never thought SO MANY people could possibly stand beside Bush and declare that he is the right man with the right policies to represent our country. At least I'm in a state that wanted Kerry and gave him the electorals we had, so I know that my vote helped in that respect. Now is not the time to fall weeping to our knees, though. Oh, I cried alright, and I'm devastated and scared, too. But, we can't let this defeatist attitude wash over us and sleep for another 4 years until our next perceived chance. If anything good comes from Bush's victory, I think it'll be increased activism that follows in its wake. Don't give up and threaten to move to Canada, folks! Find ways to continue the fight. It's a long climb back, but if we don't keep at it, 2008 is already lost.

Another first-time poster here...

I usually try to stay out of politics, but I think there are some important points that people are overlooking...

Let me first state that I am neither pro-Bush nor pro-Kerry. Rather, I just like to think of myself as pro-America.

In all of the "our country is headed for a nightmare" posts, I think people may be forgetting that this country, and its people, really have a political SPECTRUM... people are scattered all along the way from far-left to ultra-right. Just because someone voted for one of the candidates doesn't mean that he or she agrees with EVERY stance, or EVERY statement, or EVERY past or promised action of that candidate. It's just that they feel that one candidate would make a better leader than the other for the next four years. The fact that this election was so close goes to show just how diverse the population of our country is regarding political beliefs.

A colleague sent me a snippet from an op-ed article that something to the effect of: No matter who wins, remember that this country has withstood elections for hundreds of years, and we're still here, and we'll go on being one of the best nations in the world.

The President is just one person in one political office. Yes, he wields enormous influence, but so too do other elected leaders of our country. And, I hope that the winner of this election will exercise the intelligence to consult influential members of both major political parties, for the betterment of our country.

So, without meaning to make this sound like a group hug, I'm just trying to point out, in short, that a vote for a candidate isn't necessarily a 100% endorsement.

Flame away, if you feel that you need to. Thanks for listening.

Our government was set up as a system of checks and balances to keep one group from gaining too much power, now all Bush has is a check and check system. We can wave goodbye to Roe V. Wade, wave good bye to equality for the other than hetero., and if we're not careful girls, wave goodbye to the 19th Amendment. I am stunned by the loss and as I dressed my girls this morning, I was already grieving over the choices they won't get to make in their lifetimes. Then I looked at the globe sitting on the shelf, it's a big world out there...and Bush is not in power everywhere....hmmmmmm...Dragon

Wil I'm so sorry for your country. But I'm also sad for the entire world. The fact is that USA is THE major power of the free world, and the rest of us are forced along for the ride. Being from Canada, but living in Sweden, I know what it's like to be shafted by the Bush government (Log exports, perscription drugs, their hatred of us for not going to war with them). It upsets me because its four more years that the world will have to deal with a government that is, lets face it, almost as corrupt as an "African tribal" government. But we do have to look on the the other side of the coin, Kerry didn't stand a chance with the all Republican senate and house. Would they have voted for him come the end of November, I doubt it. But it is such a shame that Kerry gave in so quickly, with out even finding out the results of Ohio, Iowa and New Mexico, I think he owed it to his loyal supporters and voters to give it another day or too and see where all the final cards will fall. Wil, I'm sure i'm not the first to post this, nor will I be the last, but I wish your country all the best, and hope for the entire world's sake that the next four years are at least better than the last four.
Good luck, and just remember there's always room in Canada ;)

I never thought SO MANY people could possibly stand beside Bush and declare that he is the right man with the right policies to represent our country. At least I'm in a state that wanted Kerry and gave him the electorals we had, so I know that my vote helped in that respect. Now is not the time to fall weeping to our knees, though. Oh, I cried alright, and I'm devastated and scared, too. But, we can't let this defeatist attitude wash over us and sleep for another 4 years until our next perceived chance. If anything good comes from Bush's victory, I think it'll be increased activism that follows in its wake. Don't give up and threaten to move to Canada, folks! Find ways to continue the fight. It's a long climb back, but if we don't keep at it, 2008 is already lost.

I am appalled that the vast majority of us Americans are unable or unwilling to connect the dots and see the Bush Administration for what they are.
It’s amazing that, despite the mountains of empirical evidence to the contrary, Bush supports blindly believe him to be honest and good for the nation.
I was a Republican, but above all I am an American.

Apparently, the values of the majority of Americans is not what they purport to be.
By voting in Bush/Cheney, America said to the rest of the world, “we have no problems with America being a rogue nation that can wage war wherever we want, kill whoever we want with no moral authority”.
(Don’t forget, the reason Germany, France and others didn’t back the invasion of Iraq was that there was no evidence of WMD, and America doing so violated not only UN resolutions, but the very charter of the United Nations.)

Over the past 4 years, America has become more divided and a meaner nation.

“…do not trust to Hope. It has abandoned these lands…”

Well, I wasn't that surprised, unlike you, Wil. Being a college professor, I am always keenly aware that my students believe things (political, scientific, cultural, aesthetic, moral) with which I unequivocally disagree, and sometimes even despise. My job is not, however, to change their minds, but to help them develop the tools to think about these ideas. Most use those tools to reinforce their pre-existing beliefs. So be it. In this, at least, it's still a free country.

But I disagree with you on this statement: "Not just because we have gotten four more years of the Bush agenda, but because this election has been an enthusiastic endorsement of that agenda." Remember that about half of all voters wanted the other guy. And, more specifically, I don't think it's because we worshipped Kerry but that we feel horror, anger, even disgust for the policies of the present administration. When half the country wants your head--and is embarrassed to be identified with you--even the Republican hatchet/spin machine will blush when it tries to present the results as an "enthusiastic endorsement."

Oh, and by the way, just wait until the "reaping what ye sowed" part. Health care, social security, foreign relations, oil, environment. It's going to be ugly being an American in the short run, but look for voter backlash in the long.

Now you know how we Aussies felt with the re-election of our Prime Minister. We live in a period of neo-conservatism not experienced since the 1950s. It's a period where atrocities against humanity can be inflicted and the people simply turn their heads away. Terribly, terribly sad.

"Apparently, my country holds a fundamentally different set of values than I thought we did, and that scares the shit out of me."

Simply put, your values don't align to the majority of the country... it's just a question of the numbers. Not that it makes it any less scary or any more right - just different. And America has always been divided into quadrants - what's important to the Northeast is NOT important to the Midwest, etc... that's why the electoral system was put into place in the first place: balance.

JM2C of course.

You aren't the only one that is surprised at where the country stands. Quoting Moby: "tonight i realized that although america is possessed of a lot of progressive people, america is essentially a right-wing republican country." Where do we go from here? I'm crushed.

I am soooo sorry for the way the election went. Not only for America but for the whole world. I know there are decent people in USA but things are starting to go the wrong way.
We people in Scandinavia are scared as hell of what will be the next 4 years.
You know, in our perspective Bush is as much as a religious madman as Bin Laden and Bush god is not the father of Jesus. His religion is Money and just uses God as a cover up. And as Americans is well aware, you can't really trust a madman.

I hope everything will end up fine but as of the look of it now... Im afraid... really afraid.

"Im afraid of the americans"

"Apparently, my country holds a fundamentally different set of values than I thought we did, and that scares the shit out of me."

Simply put, your values don't align to the majority of the country... it's just a question of the numbers. Not that it makes it any less scary or any more right - just different. And America has always been divided into quadrants - what's important to the Northeast is NOT important to the Midwest, etc... that's why the electoral system was put into place in the first place: balance.

JM2C of course.

As a Brit sat watching this across the pond I'm actually stunned...On the basis of this result America appears to be a completely different place than the one relayed to me by my American friends. Do the people really want that man back in power after everything he's done?

Then again most of the Americans I know have chosen to live permanently over here. Maybe that's indicative of something about their mindset - they certainly don't come for the weather.

It's a crying shame regardless. For all of us.

America voted.. Get over it..

As far as the draft!.. Charlie Rangel (A DEMOCRAT) was the one who introduced the bill. Get the fact right!

Dear Mr. Wheaton,

Canada welcomes you into a firm, yet comforting and not creepily-sexual hug (unless you want it to be). You're welcome to join us here in the north. I have provided a detailed guide by province for Americans here.

We feel your pain. :(

I feel like a ship that has just entered the doldrums - how a mobilized political campaign that gave me hope at a better future for our children lost all its wind so quickly I'll never know.

As I wander the halls today I hear conservative friends talk about how they feel safer with GWB in the White House, and I just want to scream at the top of my lungs "don't you understand that he's the one who made you feel unsafe in the first place!" Then I realize how useless it all feels today - and I take a look around..

So here we sit in the doldrums - waiting for the next breeze

I am appalled that the vast majority of us Americans are unable or unwilling to connect the dots and see the Bush Administration for what they are.
It’s amazing that, despite the mountains of empirical evidence to the contrary, Bush supports blindly believe him to be honest and good for the nation.
I was a Republican, but above all I am an American.

Apparently, the values of the majority of Americans is not what they purport to be.
By voting in Bush/Cheney, America said to the rest of the world, “we have no problems with America being a rogue nation that can wage war wherever we want, kill whoever we want with no moral authority”.
(Don’t forget, the reason Germany, France and others didn’t back the invasion of Iraq was that there was no evidence of WMD, and America doing so violated not only UN resolutions, but the very charter of the United Nations.)

Over the past 4 years, America has become more divided and a meaner nation.

“…do not trust to Hope. It has abandoned these lands…”

Wil,

I'm as stunned as you are. I definitely tried to get my thoughts into words on my blog ( www.xanga.com/averagejoe523 ) but I definitely think you portrayed the raw emotion much better than I did.

Bush four more years
Bush for more tears...

I am soooo sorry for the way the election went. Not only for America but for the whole world. I know there are decent people in USA but things are starting to go the wrong way.
We people in Scandinavia are scared as hell of what will be the next 4 years.
You know, in our perspective Bush is as much as a religious madman as Bin Laden and Bush god is not the father of Jesus. His religion is Money and just uses God as a cover up. And as Americans is well aware, you can't really trust a madman.

I hope everything will end up fine but as of the look of it now... Im afraid... really afraid.

"Im afraid of the americans"

I'm not as scared or discouraged as many of you are, although I am concerned. I don't think this country is going to go to hell on the handbasket express now, because I don't think four more years is enough time for that kind of momentum to build. But I think D was right about the problem being that the Democrats ran the wrong candidate. I didn't get a really confident feeling about Kerry. I still voted for him, because (yes, I admit it) I would still rather have had him, or almost anyone, than W.

What does encourage me is that this race was still quite close. I don't see the results as an "enthusiasic endorsement" of Bush or his agenda. That tells me that there are a LOT of people who DO think that Bush should not have been re-elected. Those of us who feel that way have to keep making our voices heard in the next four years, and beyond. If we let this defeat silence us, then that is scarier than ANYTHING else that could happen.

Wil, you echoed my thoughts and feelings from last night and this morning exactly. I went to bed last night, late, with Ohio in the balance, but pretty clearly heading toward Bush, feeling totally alienated from "my fellow Americans."

I woke up feeling like I should take Professor John-Paul Spiro's suggestion from the same Slate piece you contributed to (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/30/unthinkable/index2.html) and go on strike. Not just an intellectual strike, but a commercial and consumer strike. I feel like I should just take four years off. Not work, not spend, not contribute. Maybe travel, definitely read, possibly write, but not give my tacit consent to a culture and society that is clearly at odds with what I know to be reality.

Participating in the American economy and culture begins to feel morally equivalent to buying conflict diamonds or taking a sex tour. Or buying sweatshop goods or oil. Oh, wait, those are already part of the American economy.

well, okay, i don't agree. but, that's cool. i think it's a grand opportunity for our country. we just have to do some good with it. i voted bush. i like the guy. i know where he stands. i don't like his spending habits, but hey, no one can like everything about everyone. ever consider running yourself? at least that way, you'd be able to make the proposals for things you stand for. and it'd ensure that the bills and laws would be well written. certainly better to read than they are now.

From now on, every voter must hold at least a Master's degree or pass an IQ test to vote, or not live in the South. I'm pretty tired of the plains states, the south, and a smattering of other states deciding the future of the world (and I live in Texas!)

Now we know that change won't occur in politics or from others. I urge all of you, and myself, to start changing from within first, and make our lives better for ourselves and other immediately around us. This election proves that we can't count on our leaders or those asked to make it for us. Simplistic, I know. But what else is there?

Wil,

I'm as stunned as you are. I definitely tried to get my thoughts into words on my blog ( www.xanga.com/averagejoe523 ) but I definitely think you portrayed the raw emotion much better than I did.

Bush four more years
Bush for more tears...

Are you down with the G-O-P?! :)

I swear the only thing I don't like about you is the fact that you're a democrat... your views are whacked. It's NOT about oil- there is no conspiracy... Bush did not lie.

You can't change leaders in the middle of a war,ass.

Who would you REALLY rather see as President? George Bush- or some alien looking fuck whose more stuck on himself than anything else?

From now on, every voter must hold at least a Master's degree or pass an IQ test to vote, or not live in the South. I'm pretty tired of the plains states, the south, and a smattering of other states deciding the future of the world (and I live in Texas!)

Now we know that change won't occur in politics or from others. I urge all of you, and myself, to start changing from within first, and make our lives better for ourselves and other immediately around us. This election proves that we can't count on our leaders or those asked to make it for us. Simplistic, I know. But what else is there?

What the Republicans are reaping today is the result of 40 years of machine building.

Democrats have only been seriously doing the same for less than 18 months.

Real change takes time.

I am soooo sorry for the way the election went. Not only for America but for the whole world. I know there are decent people in USA but things are starting to go the wrong way.
We people in Scandinavia are scared as hell of what will be the next 4 years.
You know, in our perspective Bush is as much as a religious madman as Bin Laden and Bush god is not the father of Jesus. His religion is Money and just uses God as a cover up. And as Americans is well aware, you can't really trust a madman.

I hope everything will end up fine but as of the look of it now... Im afraid... really afraid.

"Im afraid of the americans"

I am so upset that this has happened. In 7 months I will be moving to Tampa from Toronto Canada. And I can say that as bad as the corruption and mismanagement in Canadian politics is, nothing compares to Bush and his administration of liars, imcompitant useless assholes! In three months, my first born child will be here and in eighteen years she will STILL be paying off this administrations blunders and lies. Let us all hang our heads in shame, pray that the next four years will be quick and as painless as possible. In God we Pray. In God we Pray. In God we Pray.

the rest of the world would be laughing right now at the stpidity of the americans voting in bush, that is if we weren't all so scared of what he is going to try next.
i live in scotland and i don't want my country following bush into another war that we don't agree with. lets hope we get rid of tony blair at the next elections and remove bush's ally in their war of terrorism on the world

Dear Mr. Wheaton,

Canada welcomes you into a firm, yet comforting and not creepily-sexual hug (unless you want it to be). You're welcome to join us here in the north. I have provided a detailed guide by province for Americans here.

We feel your pain. :(

Wil,

I'm as stunned as you are. I definitely tried to get my thoughts into words on my blog ( www.xanga.com/averagejoe523 ) but I definitely think you portrayed the raw emotion much better than I did.

Bush four more years
Bush for more tears...

averagejoe
www.xanga.com/averagejoe523

I don't think you can call it a national nightmare if the majority of the population votes in support of Bush and his policies.
I rest somewhat easier knowing that (apparently) the will of the people was done and that they had the opportunity to evaluate the facts and opinions to decide wherein the truth lay. I can't understand the conclusions that majority reached, but, unlike last time, we collectively will get what we deserve. It's just sad that the country's priorities seemed to revolve around who-does-what-to-whom-and-how in the privacy of their bedroom rather than Iraq or terrorism (regardless of where you stand on those issues or even think they *are* separate issues). Even *if* you agree with the "moral stance" of the Republicans, surely it isn't the most pressing issue of this election cycle?

A lot of people have been running down the electorate here. The fact is that most of the electorate is moderate, and there were no moderate candidates. I am no fan of Bush's domestic agenda, but to quote something I read on the Internet (so it must be true), I don't want what happened in Beslan to happen in Baltimore.

I feel the need to modify what was said earlier about Bush winning the majority of the vote. Let's clarify that to be he won the SIMPLE majority. At least if he keeps that kind of record, a SIMPLE majority, he won't be able to change the constitution.

A sad day for a once great country.

I feel your pain.

This is not some slam. This is not me trying to make fun of you. As a republican, I truly do know how you are feeling today. I remember how I felt in 96 when Clinton won re-election. I remember the feelings, the shock, and dumb founded awe that the guy was re-elected. And for that, I am feeling for you today. I should be jumping up and down with joy over Bush’s victory. But I am not, for the sympathy that I feel for you today.

But I want to tell you some thing that I have since learned from that experience. America is not the President, or the Congress. America is its people. “We the People” are what make America great. We are the ones that have built this country, and have made it the greatest country in the world. And it will continue to be the great bastion of freedom.

P.S. I am doing a little jig over Daschle losing. Man. That is a shocker!

I have always thought that it was less horrifying that Bush had four more years in office than the fact that the majority of the American people put him back in office. The president doens't scare me, America scares me.

sngrfxz asked what would have to change about Bush for his opponents to vote for him.

Well, he would have to fire Rumsfeld and replace him with someone competant, he would have to stop trying to write bigotry into the U.S. constitution, he would have to figure out that he is indeed picking Supreme Court justices based on a litmus test, he would have to...

No. It's just not possible. I would vote for a plate of fried okra before I voted for George W. Bush.

You ain't said nothin but a word. I totally and completely agree with you here.

Take care.

I didn't go to sleep last night until it was somewhat clear that Bush would win this election. Why did I even try to sleep? I awoke at 3 am this morning. Scared. In fear of the next four years.

As I wrote yesterday, and continue to believe today, the government needs balance and we have none. One party, no, one person, has managed to scare this country shitless. As such, he has somehow won the presidency. He has control of the country, the house and the senate. And, he will eventually elect his conservative right-winged judges to the supreme court.

Four more years of this crap! Elect a madman, you get madness.

You could always move to Canada if it's so terrible.

Melinda at November 3, 2004 10:07 AM
Are you down with the G-O-P?! :)

I swear the only thing I don't like about you is the fact that you're a democrat... your views are whacked. It's NOT about oil- there is no conspiracy... Bush did not lie.

You can't change leaders in the middle of a war,ass.

Who would you REALLY rather see as President? George Bush- or some alien looking fuck whose more stuck on himself than anything else?

Well, there you go. This pretty much sums up why Bush won, doesn't it?

Well said. I am disappointed that Americans have gone in a direction so skewed from the one we should be going. I am disappointed that people are so ignorant that they voted for such a vacuous anti-president. I am disappointed that several states voted yes to banning gay marriage. I'm truly at a loss of words to describe the level of immaturity Americans have exhibited on this sad day.

Bush is not trying to start a draft. Get over it, it is not there. Not time to fear-monger any more, the election has been won.

I am absolutely shocked by this election. I felt like I was punched in the gut when I heard that Kerry conceded. I live in Ohio and even volunteered to assist the Kerry campaign locally. I really was not expecting for it to be that close of an election. My college held a mock election and Kerry won by almost double. I think that many of the young voters did not take advantage of their right to vote. If they would have, I don't think the election would have ended the way it did. I agree with you that these will be 4 difficult years with Bush leading us.

I will be graduating in May with a license to teach in Ohio and am now terrified that I will not be able to secure a job. I was really hoping that Kerry would win and fix No Child Left Behind to help teachers assist all children to learn to the best of their abilities. Teachers need funds, support, and smaller class sizes in order for No Child Left Behind to work properly. Unfortunately, with Bush in office none of these types of support have been seen and with him staying in office teachers will not be able to truly guide and teach the next generation of leaders to the best of their abilities.

Dear Wil,

Unfortunately, Karl Rove's strategy worked. Now if we were dreaming, what would be ideal? How about no spin, no name calling and responsible behaviour. No "truth, as it is made" or at least marketed as the following UF strip captures so perfectly:

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010217&mode=classic

But how could the disparate electoral bodies ever manage that? Sigh...

The majority has spoken and the majority has the right to be wrong. As a people we have voted that American aggression against foreign countries is okay, that we will sink more money into "liberating iraq" (Sorry for the civilians that were accidently killed by our bombs guys). And Bin Laden I'm sure is laughing knowing that his efforts to distract us is working perfectly and he will continue seeing a million dollars of our spending to his every single dollar. More terrorists activities will surely follow cause we have chosen to follow the evil infidel Bush.

Alan

Wil,

with all due respect - did yo ever think that maybe you and those on the coast (just like the NE) may simply believe in different things than those that the average American believes in?

Maybe it is not America holding the wrong values but folks like you? Maybe, the average American will look to someone who speaks simply but is willing to stand up for what is right and other countries be damned rather than vote for a couple of attorneys who speak well but in actuality say very little.

Maybe, just maybe, you need to spend time away from California and the showbiz crowd and see what it is like in the real world for the average person.

Bush won because a majority of Americans chose him to lead over Kerry.

Some of us believe that it is up to the individual to make something of himself, not the government. Some of us believe that sometimes you simply have to kick some ass - even as a cost - because it prevents a more serious problem farther down the road.

Bush has been in office nearly 4 years - we were attacked because Clinton dropped the ball on everything - yet the last 4 years have been scandel free.

Bush is the right man for our time. As for me, I would benefit from a Kerry presidency as I am lower income and he'd give me many things.

I'll go with Bush, let him run the country, kick some ass, give the taxpayers their money back - and i will be responsible for myself.

You come across as a good guy - but you are shielded and blind to the real America.

From now on, every voter must hold at least a Master's degree or pass an IQ test to vote, or not live in the South. I'm pretty tired of the plains states, the south, and a smattering of other states deciding the future of the world (and I live in Texas!)

Now we know that change won't occur in politics or from others. I urge all of you, and myself, to start changing from within first, and make our lives better for ourselves and other immediately around us. This election proves that we can't count on our leaders or those asked to make it for us. Simplistic, I know. But what else is there?

I find it amazing that we were bombarded by all kinds of "facts" for 3/6/too many months about both sides, to the point that you can pretty much be sure every voter at least heard all of the issues. Yet you will all sit here and say that only you are the smart ones. Only you know the truth. Everyone else is just blind and stupid. Which one is arrogant again? Which one is devisive?
I didn't vote for GWB. I don't like the right-wing extremist fundies. Tough for me.
Welcome to DEMOCRACY.
I really like this site, and the people that are here, and I had higher expectations for all of you than this.
Here's a clue people: *Everyone has their own opinion and the right to it*.
When we forget that, THEN the U.S. is in trouble.

Im not attacking anyone here im just saying maybe as Dems, the majority of you out there might want to look at your leadership.

that is where you are losing every time, your leaders have gone so left that they dont even try to pretend to be moderate.

America will never vote for the extreamists not on the right, not on the left because there are so many of us we are all looking for the best out there and if you cut yourself off from half the population thats going to end your carrier

just look at Daschle

he was is power for so long but in the last 8 years he begain to simply ignore the middle and support only the far left and boom, He was the first Senate leader to be defeated since 1952 when Democrat Ernest McFarland of Arizona was unseated by Republican Barry Goldwater

Bush won not because only the right wing voted for him, he won because he was liked by both sides

if the Dems want to win, they have to start promoting someone who everyone can get behind not just the radicals

I am truly sickened by the way these elections have gone. Not just the presidential election, but the bigotry shown by the voters in 11 states, who say that my son's god-father cannot mayybe who he loves. Can this still be the same country I knew, the country of Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, Jr? I think not.

What scares me even more is that this President may have the opportunity to appoint up to 4 (count 'em - 4) justices to the Supreme Court. Good bye Roe v. Wade, good bye civil unions, good bye privacy, free speech, lawful use, and more .... THAT's what really scares me!

I forgot one thing -

Let's go with Supreme Court nominations! Let's rid ourselves of judges rewriting the costitution insead of understading it.

This is the best thing to happen to America since Ronald Reagan!

Cheney in '08!

You know I never ever comment online, but I have to say this as a conservative, young, biracial VOTER. I wish that this country wasn't so divided that each side spends an inordinate ammount of time, I wish that there was some way for it to vote for whom you feel represents you morally and at the same time vote for social programs. Social Justice. How is it possible that I am being asked to decide at age 24, whether I should follow what I believe morally to be true... pro-life, anti-stem cell, etc (sorry All, I knowthis is not a conservative board) or to fund programs that provide SOCIAL JUSTICE, (which I also beleive is what the bible calls me to do,) serve the poor, help the elderly and children. I wish there was room for dialog, because this country is now divided on a no-shots fired, culture war that I don't know that we can survive

I'm with you, Wil. Utterly speechless.

Dammit, I think I'm going to put "my country holds a fundamentally different set of values than I thought we did" on my list of phrases to punt people in the nuts for, right after "Lowering taxes will cut the deficit!"

Putting aside for the moment the fact that, culturally, this isn't one country, it's at least two, possibly up to four,[1] barely half the people who voted voted for Bush. Yeah, he won. That sucks. A lot, especially if you're living in a part of the country that will have retribution heaped on it (like, say, the northeast or the populated sections of the west coast). But there's a limit to the amount of damage that can be done in a four year period. The world won't come to an end.

If what happened bothers you, then do something about it! Run for office, get involved in local or state government, get activist in your party, go door to door and convert the fsckheads, do some real investigative journalism and dig out the dirt, get people pulled up on charges -- anything besides the knee jerk whiny hand-wringing. Fight the fight against the fantasy based whack-jobs when they try and pass off their collective delusion as reality.

JFDI, dammit.

[1] I live in Connecticut. Come visit for a few days, then take a trip down to, say, Mississippi. Then tell me we're the same.

Wil,

The worst part about this entire thing, is that the GOP has even MORE power in the Senate and House. This current administration now has NO ONE to answer to, and can do whatever they want. The GOP will be able to steamroll just about any inititive through Congress and the Senate without much, if any opposition.

The next 4 years scare the ever living crap out of me.

I slept great! Freedom spoke up and voted for Bush. It's just like liberals to trash our system and way of life. Life will go on, you can try again in 4 years. Just dump the fringe left, people like Michael Moore and the rest of the Hollywood types and you have a chance. We put up with Clinton for 8 years and lived I think we can handle Bush.

I am saddened beyond description. I have never thought, spoken or acted as if I were ashamed to be an American, but today I am immensly ashamed of my country. Bush is NOT my president, and this isn't what I believe America should stand for. That so many others willingly (blindly?) follow a man who has effectively said, "Fuck you, we're better and more important than you and we don't care what you think" to the rest of the world is terrifying and beyond disheartening.

This much I know. We are not safe. While our "leader" ignores and enrages the rest of the world by persuing his own agendas and we slowly lose our allies, we will never be safe. Lip service to "homeland security" and draconian, liberty-threatening legal measures won't protect America. Terrorist guns and bombs are hardly the only threat we face. For the majority of us who aren't rich, corporate suits I don't expect economic progress either.

Four more years of arrogance and self-serving empire building. And all the lemmings support it...

It's enough to make me go nukular.

Ignorance and fear have won over hope and reason. It is sickening to see what this country is becoming. People don't see that Bush is a fraud and a liar. I thought that America was better than this hate and intolerance. America will get what it deserves not only in the next four years and beyond as the consequences of this madness appear.

I haven't posted here in a long time, but I just wanted to say this one thing to those people who feel that Bush's election (note the non use of a prefix there) represents the majority of the nation:

Look at those numbers, and how close they are. This is a nation divided. This is the America that Bush has spearheaded. What good is a "secure" nation if we live in a time of unrest?

I'm considering filing for Political Asylum. I'm with ya on this one, Wil. It's a sad day for America...

I thought I'd share this -

http://mikesejournal.com/archives/003034.php.

I'm as frustrated as you are Wil. Someone on my friend's list over on livejournal posted this, and I'll share it here.

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it - always."
- Mohandas K. Gandhi

May we not despair, but continue to stand up for what we believe. I'm with you, Wil, and everyone else who voted against him. His day will come.

You said it, Wil. That's exactly how everyone I've spoken to this morning feels. Stunned, disappointed, shocked horrified, dejected.

Even though I feel like someone stole the wind out of my sails, and it's another Christmas from my childhood when I woke up to socks instead of toys, we can't give up.

All the more reason to work for change in 2008. We are not alone, and while I am fearful for our country's future, I'm not going to stop being politically active, even in the face of defeat. Keep raising your voice, don't give up.

I'm with you Wil. This sucks. Canada is looking pretty nice these days...

I think we're all just being a little melodramatic.

"Long national nightmare?" Come on.
So you don't like the guy.
You don't agree with his policies.
Or the war.

But fact is, he's still the president and it's about time people start acting like he's the "enemy" and saying things like "they're going to leave the country!"

I'm not saying I support everything he does and I'm not saying I voted for him.
But I am saying I'm an American, and he's our president.

Let's move on

This just shows how the US is split. The heartland with conservative values won the day. The main theme for voters this year was common sense and values. I am happy with the results and look forward to the next 4 years.

I have had a dream since early last year that this would be a repeat of Bush I. It was looking good, too.

How is it possible that in such a high voter turnout, people voted for the incumbant? Usually isn't it the opposite?

I was just stunned yesterday watching on the news, hoping for a good break or something to be wrong with the returns or whatever. Then I remembered. America is the land of Britney Spears. McDonald's. Ben Affleck movies. We buy up millions of whatever corporation throws our way or convinces us that we need. Why would we also not buy into what the Republican Propaganda machine says we need?

Kerry didn't run a bad campaign but the Repubs hammered home key points like "flip flopper" and about his actions after the Vietnam conflict. Even tho Bush is much more of a flip flopper, and wasn't even bothered with going to war, the mainstream doesn't care.

So many polls said that moral values played a role. How is that possible? Moral? DUI, cocaine, killing innocent Iraqis? Going to war so your rich buddies can get richer?

Why are Americans such fucking prudes? I can't believe gay marriage is the hot item that it has become. Why do people care what others do in their own home? People need to look at their own lives and how fucked up they are before they should be trying to regulate others and their behaviors.

You guys want moving boxes? Because if you're so anti-american you should fucking leave- and we'd be better off without you.

I totally can't beleive that Kerry conceded. I think it's a conspiracy to the e-voting that took place, because they know that if Kerry wanted a recount, they wouldn't be able to do it, or they would find numerous errors which would crush the voting system and what took place. This would totally undermine the system.

I wouldnt be surprised if this was what happened, because if I were Kerry, I'd want a recount! No way did Bush win. No FREEGIN way!

Another 4 years of Bush's reign of terror.

The shock of this election: I begin to realize that I live in a country where slightly more than every other person is unintelligent, overly religious, full of hate, or simply blind. I begin to feel sickened, physically and emotionally. I was always against flag-burners, but today I cut up my American flag and threw it in the trash. If Rove's queer-bashing tactics can win elections, if America is really that stupid or apathetic, then the flag deserves to be burned, burned, burned. I have a dream. I hope Osama's next attack gets Karl Rove.

Did you all see the map of the U.S. with the red and blue colors? It appears as though Kerry is popular primarily on the fringes of the country in the more crowded states. The red portion of the country looked like 75% of the area, at least.

Just found that curious.

And I'm also interested in the fact that everywhere you looked over the past year, practically everyone on the radio, in the papers, on the internet, and in the media villified this administration. Yet when it came time to put it to the test, it turned out there were a lot more people (3 million!) who just weren't as vocal about their beliefs until they got to the polls.

I truly sympathize with the sense of betrayal Kerry's supporters must be feeling. The country is a little different than they thought it was.

All you haters out there...get over it. Not all Republicans are anti-gay. What are you doing that is so bad that you dont want the government watching over us? Are you a terrorist?? I have nothing to hide and I really dont care if they watch what we buy and what we do. If you are all so miserable, leave the country. I didnt vote for Kerry, but I have alot of respect for the fact that he didnt drag us through an expensive, futile process just to find out he didnt get Ohio. He's got more balls than Gore ever did.

Just think about these two terms occupying the same thought: Bush & most votes ever.

I'm sorry, if you can believe those two terms can co-exist without sending off serious warning bells and cognitive dissonance, then you should seek medical help.

In the coming weeks and months we're going to find out how this coup was pulled off(again). For now, though, we're going to have to live with losing a womans right to choose, a national draft, rising national debt, drilling in Alaska, and a continued "war on terra". May God have mercy on our souls.

Wil,

I am also deeply saddened today. The fact that the majority of America re-elected a lying and deceitful man to be our leader makes me re-evaluate my status as an American. This was the first election in which I was able to vote. In the last one I registered but the DMV failed to change my voter registration when I moved, big surprise! Anyways, I made damn sure this time that I voted for the right person. Another poster, Melinda, made some pretty strong and ignorant remarks directed toward you. Her words perfectly illustrate the mentality of the Republican party. Idiots. According to Bush, the war ended months ago, yet she says that you don't change leadership in the middle of a war. Interesting. What scares me the most is that now this man has carte blanche to run our country into further debt. With the GOP controlling the Senate, the House and quite possibly the Judiciary, we as liberty-loving, free-speaking Americans are going to have a fight on our hands to keep our rights intact. This election is the product of un-informed, uneducated and naive voters. I'll bet that not even 50% of the voters watched the debates. If they had, they would have come to the realization that I did that George Bush is nothing but a hothead and not fit to run a country let alone drive a pickup truck.

Thanks for listening and keep fighting the good fight.

Jeff

""then the flag deserves to be burned, burned, burned.""

My god man?!? how can you even say that dem/rep lib/con who fucking cares?!? its your flag man the flag of your country that is sick in any respect

its the radicals like you on the left, or the anti-gays on the right that are making this country crazed

not the middle ground that we should all be able to meet on

kerry got pwned!

"The fact is that USA is THE major power of the free world, and the rest of us are forced along for the ride."

Are you kidding me? Do you think the US enjoys being the only country in the world with the balls to do anything? Putting our men and women at risk all over the world: Ethiopia, Rwanda, etc. I've lived in Europe too: about 80 percent of the people there don't even work. Why don't all you Euros get together, organize, make some decisions and start taking the lead on some issues? Nobody's stopping you!

Ok everyone calm down. The worst thing you can do is loose it. First, yeah they Republicans do have control of Congress and the Presidency, but they don't have MASSIVE control. They can't break a filibuster. On the otherhand, Bush has won both the electoral and the popular vote. So you folks who seem to want to whine about Gore losing even though he had the popular vote can stop now. America has spoken. Now you can speak to him. If you don't want a certain thing passed or not, then make sure you let your congressman and your preisdent know. If he screws up like you guys say he will, well, then you can try to get Hilary voted in in 2008.

I felt the same way when I woke up this morning and say that it was still a tie with Ohio, Iowa, and New Mexico left to be counted. Then I caught the TV just an hour ago and saw "Bush Wins". I was so sickened.

I have about 8000 things to say in frustration to this as everyone else does. But I would be reiterating the same thing everyone else has said.

Just remember one thing .. I did not vote this guy in this time or the last time, so it is not my fault.

I'll echo the comments already posted here, I'm disappointed in our people, and shocked at the naivete shown. I am depressed at the outlook of a further four year downward spiral but am trying, intellectually anyway, to turn this around and use it. I agree that we still do matter in the system, and despite how corrupt and unbalanced things seem right now, it's not too late. I'm going to keep studying the issues and get involved with both the local and state party levels. I'm going to try and make sure that in 2008, or 2012, or whenever we will finally get a candidate we can respect, with 'gravitas' as Toby Z. put it. Maybe Obama will bloom in this hubris and we can put him up sooner rather than later. Either way, I'm not going quitely in this particular 'good night'.

-Gregory

"I don't care for Bush's views on religion, 'morals', abortion, etc, but I feel he HAS shown the ability to make some necessary, if unpopular, decisions that had to be made."

Posted by: Mike Miller on November 3, 2004 09:30 AM

But you need to care about his views. Take his view on stem cell research. He can take the "moral" ground and be against stem cell research, but the world isn't taking the same stance. So all the research is being done overseas. What do you think will happen if China comes up with a cure for Alzheimers through stem cell research? What do you think we will be willing to pay for the cure? That money will be leaving the country. He may be making needed unpopular decisions (but that is also debatable, going on the assumption that Bush supporters feel that they are needed decisions) in reagrds to the war on terriosm, but his other decisions will have long term impact on this country also and I think that is where the fear for four more years of Bush and a GOP controlled Congress come from. The war will not last forever. We may be so focused on the war that the rest of the world is going on without us.

It's unfathomable. I honestly didn't expect a Bush win. I'm Canadian, sitting up here watching it all unfold, and can't tell whether I'm glad I only have to watch it unfold, or whether I wish I could have been a part of the process and possibly averted this win.

The scariest part for me? Somewhere it was mentioned that Bush can't get a 3rd term, which means that this upcoming 4 years is pretty much carte blanche for him, as he'll never have to face being defeated in another election. Think about that - he can do whatever he can get away with, and never face the voters again. Shudder.

If anyone wants to come hide in Canada, lemme know. I have a spare couch.

Will, some of your readers (and fans) also hold a fundamentally different set of values than you do. Don't fear us. And please don't assume the majority that chose Bush is somehow more ignorant, less intelligent, and less aware than you. It's a temptation for both sides to fall into that mistaken type of thinking.

I am a military wife. My husband and I are extremely disappointed with the election results. Now the a ultraconservative Republican party wields power over all branches of the government.
This is a sign that we Democrats need to wake up, mobilize, and organize. We need to take a few lessons from the Republican Revolution of the 90's. Rather than spend the next four years in mourning, we need to put this election behind us and start today to take America back. The pendulum swings both ways people!

"about 80 percent of the people there don't even work. "

How do you eat when you don't work? dumb

What's with all the double posted comments?

As saddened as I am by the result of the election I am proud of the turn out. It's nice to see that we Americans aren't as apathetic as I thought we were. We can't let the poor deluded masses get us down, partipate in your local politics. It's what effects you most on a day to day basis.

James from S.D. has made an interesting discovery that should enlighten all those "betrayed" Kerry supports. Fact #1: Kerry won the following states: New York, California, and Washington, DC. (technically, not a state). Fact #2: As stated by Mr. James, "over the past year, practically everyone on the radio, in the papers, on the internet, and in the media villified this administration." Fact #3: MOST OF THE MEDIA IS BASED IN EITHER NY, CA, or DC. HELLO PEOPLE!?!? If this doesn't make clear to you how much influence the media has over the perception of how the election is going, then you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote. Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Get educated!

I chatted with my mom this morning and disagreed with everything she said - she, who taught me my morals in the first place - and it basically came down to this realization: radical Islamism is bringing out radical Puritanism. Reference Europe, 400 AD - 1800 AD.

Niall Ferguson has a great column in this morning's LA Times about the "split nation" falacy [here].

I think it's important to remember that we are not our government or our politics.

We may not be better for it but, hell, I can do 2 more years of Bush. I just hope we don't blow up in the process.

(Yes, I said 2 years. I don't think he'll make it through 4. Think Nixon..)

This is a tragedy and at this moment I truly fear for the future of our country.

However people seem to be missing the reason why this happened. The answer is really quite simple. There are far too many people in the US think it is perfectly acceptable to chose a candidate based on one issue. Of all the issues on which the candidates differed, only two affect ALL of us. Those two are the Terror/Iraq fiasco and the economy. Abortion, gay rights and the rest are all more personal ideas. The campaigns and the media forced the masses to focus on the lesser issues and this is the result.

My question to the anti-abortionist and anti-gay rights Bush supporters is this:

How are laws governing those issues going to feed your families when Bush signs the law which rewards your employer for moving your job overseas??

Maybe we should have paid more attention to the important issues.

I've said enough. Last night the American people made a grievous error and we ALL will be paying for it for a long time to come.

The best news to me, aside from the fact that Bush won, and that we won more seats, is that your next candidate will more than likely be Hillary. That means yet another four years of peace, prosperity and happiness. Hillary has about as much of a chance of winning the White House as the Taco Bell Dogg does.

Wil, I WISH I UNDERSTOOD what you mean when you say that the country hold a fundamentally different set of values than you. That suprises you? Whacko liberals, which I do not think you are, have ruined your party! There is NO WAY that the majority of blue collar, hard working Americans are going to allow the DNC, run by people out of touch with conservative Amercia, to run this country.

See, more of this country is conservative than you think, the election proved that. It proved that we don't want gay marriage, we don't want government run health care, and we want the security that only, at this point, someone from our side can offer.

I don't know who this America is that believes in Bush and all he stands for. It scares me and confounds me. I thought Teflon went out of style in the 1980's.

Not for Bush in Texas

Finally the nightmare of election time is over and we can go back to our lives. Bush isn't the best (or possibly even a good) choice, but he is sooo much better than the alternative.

Didn't anyone read the highlights of the Osama Bin Laden tape? It said that every state Kerry wins, he will make a truce with! This will show that bastard!

I really dont care if they watch what we buy and what we do.

I thought Republicans were against intrusive "Big Government" Obvioulsy the mosre fascistic Bush supporters are all for it. thats one of the things that scares the crap out of the more than half of America that didn't vote for Bush

Well, Dave, non-workers in Europe are able to eat because their governments give them $$. Talk about dumb.

I am a Bush supporter myself so I am glad that he won. Of course this is a free country and we all have our views.

What this is, is a wake up call for the Democrats. They claim the GOP was out of touch with the public but yet they won both houses, the popular vote, electoral college and their leader in the Senate.

Wil,

It's a shame that a blogger I respect would choose to take the perspective of antagonism and divisiveness. This country has survived and thrived under the religious fundamentalism of Reagan, the Texas pigheadedness of LBJ and both Bushes, the moral ambiguity of Clinton and JFK, and the paranoia of Nixon. This is still the best fucking country in the world, whether any of the melodramatic whiners (or religious, homophobic whackjobs) think so. You may not agree with two or three or twenty of the man's policies or ideas, but he is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If you try to suggest otherwise, then YOU are the divisive ones, not him.

Would you like the real estate listings for Canada? We would be happy to have you.

Woohoo! Another four years down the crapper!

My presiding emotion is disappointment because I went from being simply anti-Bush to pro-Kerry (and anti-Bush). I don't know if he has plans to run in 2008 or not, but I really though Kerry would have made an excellent president. National healthcare (no, NOT gov't run), better foreign policy, better environmental policy, better economic policy.

I could make a looong list of reasons here but everyone who voted for Kerry knows why Bush doesn't make a good President and everyone who voted for Bush wouldn't listen anyway. Sound familiar?

Kerry thought larger turnout would help him win, when in reality, it showed that more Americans disagree with him than ever believed. Most Republicans don't stand on soapboxes ranting so it comes to a shock to Democrats when everything they hear is negative towards Bush, but he walks away with the election.

I can't wait to hear Michael Moore's concession speech.

Another four years of tossing America's salad. Not exactly what I was hoping for when I got up this morning.

It's a stunning reality. I admit I was one of those people who supported Kerry, but if you asked me why, I would have done nothing but talk against Bush rather than talk up Kerry (the ABB campaign). I'm really hoping it's not 4 years of the same, and that maybe Bush will really hit his stride during this term and that I will be able to look back and say, you know, he surprised me and he did a good job. Far-fetched maybe, but it's what I got left.

Watching state after state turn red last night really was jolting. The policies of the Bush administration have done more damage than I think a lot of people realize. Not just in our relations abroad, but in our day to day lives here at home. In talking with some of the people I know in those red states that voted for Bush, I was shocked how many of them were still undecided up until it was time to vote. And I was also surprised at the ones who were afraid to change leadership, even thought they might disagree with much of what has already happened.

People like a strong leader, and it looks like the majority believe that Bush is stronger than Kerry. He certainly appears more commanding and less academic than Kerry (not saying Bush is stupid, not that I would disagree with that, but again, not what I'm saying here). Granted there are some hard-core Bush supporters out there who know that this is the right path, but I think there is an overwhelming population that was unsure and so this is where we stand. I'm afraid to think that the majority of the population knows that Bush is right for the job.

Anyway, it's my $.02 of drivel. Thanks Wil for offering a place for it. I'm looking forward to seeing you at the ACME Comedy Theater tonight.

well, okay, i don't agree. but, that's cool. i think it's a grand opportunity for our country. we just have to do some good with it. i voted bush. i like the guy. i know where he stands. i don't like his spending habits, but hey, no one can like everything about everyone. ever consider running yourself? at least that way, you'd be able to make the proposals for things you stand for. and it'd ensure that the bills and laws would be well written. certainly better to read than they are now.

It is a sad day for the United States. It is a sad day for the world. Ignorance has won over enlightenment.

Surely, I thought Kerry would win. Surely, Americans have read and seen the misdeeds of this administration. I am dumbfounded.

To the gentleman with the green card, who queried about the draft. My understanding is that if you live in the United States, you are subject to the draft. I have a friend who lived with his girlfriend in the U.S. during the Vietnam era; although he was Canadian and disabled, he still had to register for the draft. (His card showed him as a 4F -- or unfit.) He actually showed me his draft card when I refused to believe that he had to register for the draft. If you do not wish to be drafted, your only option is to leave the United States.

I would like to be the first to welcome all the refugees/emigrants from our neighbours to the south.

Welcome to Canada.

Congratulations Bush on a second term!

Congragulations to Kerry are in order as well for comming fairly close.

Kerry is a good guy and may have made a good president.

However...

Bush is needed in office at this time.
The people of our country understood this and took the appropriate action.

Most of the political stuff I see Wil write about is usually wrong or very misinformed. He seems to borrow his political views from others and incorporate them into his own dramatic representation.

Everything else Wil writes is usually great.

Hi Wil:

In high school I had the biggest crush on Wesley (I'm sure you know him, kid that flies around space and stuff) as he and I were about the exact same age (this is the late 80's).

The problem is (at least it's becoming very clear that it's a problem) that I'm a male.

You see Wil the thing is, I don't hate you because you're straight, or that you got married to a woman. I'm thrilled that you are living your life with someone you deeply care about. Even if I were irrational enough to mistake my adolescent infatuation with a character you played on a TV show as genuine love, I hope I'd at least be rational enough not to hate you because you didn't reciprocate my love for you. And I certainly hope I'd be sane enough not to hate you because you're not sexually interested in men.

And yet, there are a whole range of people out there who hate me just because I pined for Wesley Crusher when I was a teenager. OK, that's not really why they hate me - but there reason for hating me is just as absurd. More absurd, because they exist in large numbers and their hatred is fueling laws that punish me for liking men.

Even as I'm thinking about this I'm having a hard time not crying. And there's a reason why I bring up the silly crush on Wesley thing. Because it reminds me that when I should have been enjoying puppy-love affairs, I was instead waking up to the fact that many people, some who I liked and looked up to, considered what I was to be an abomination. So I had to channel my feelings into silly romantic space operas with Wesley just to try to keep my sanity. How bad is that? (No offense to you or the writers of SNG :)

And know I'm thinking of leaving this country. I remember when I used to sing "The Great American Melting Pot" from SchoolHouse Rock, and really feel like I belonged to this great country. It seems that today that part of me is dead. Again, it's hard not to cry as I type this.

So yeah, I'm really seriously considering a move to Canada. And well I wouldn't encourage most people to do the same (stay and fight to make America better), I'm more and more leaning towards encouraging gay Americans to emigrate from the U.S.. I mean, if a gay man or woman wants to stay and fight, more power to them, but this isn't just a case of feeling like things are going south, or being morally injured by this action or that action of the government, it's an issue of real personal liberty being assaulted and the right to pursue happiness being seriously infringed upon.

So anyway, the battered teenager inside of me wants to tell you that you were and are a real cute guy, but the frightened adult is too busy looking up information on Canadian work visas to give him the space in this post to do it.

Keep on being a great American and fighting to make the US of A the best country out there.

Sincerely,
Tony

Are you sobbing yet? Please tell me you're sobbing, because that's such a vivid picture that I'd hate to be disappointed.

The hyperbole continues to flow in great lusty torrents. "Scared". Hah. As if any of this President's policies have effected you in any noticable way (except perhaps your enlarged checkbook.)

Come to grips with the fact that Bush isn't a divider, it's YOU (the left) who have split off. Off so far from mainstream America that you can't even recognize it (nor they you) any longer.

America continues to elect Republican after Republican, Presidents, Senators, and Representatives, and it's no accident. It's a trend ... one that some leftists are finally waking up to for the first time in over 20 years.

Hey Wil. I have been reading your site for awhile now and I agree and disagree with some of your opinions, but that is beside the point. I voted Bush and here is why; he supports most (but not all) of my values. The war in Iraq has made us safer by removing a potential threat (Hitler anyone?) who was not going to be removed by the actions of an ineffective United Nations. I am a veteran of the Gulf War and I think that he should have been removed then but we were afraid to alienate our so-called allies. Now, after two terms of the Clinton Administration failed to remove or control him, i.e.: the "no fly" zones in Iraq, we had to do so.

Like a poster said earlier, I can understand how you feel. I too felt shocked and in disbelief after Clinton was reelected. Despite that, our country survived then and will survive today.

What makes our country great is that everyone has an equal voice in government. What we need to do now is to reunite together, agree to disagree sometimes and work to make the future better for Democrats and Republicans.

UnivSys.,

We the people are commenting not because we are anti-American.

Being pragmatic for a second, I'd go so far to say that most liberal-leaning folks would say Bush and camp are anti-American while you and your right-wing gang think Kerry, et. al. are.

Which is why that kind of logic needs to be thrown out and never spoken of in public. It reeks of fascism and works to only further divide our country.

If you don't like other American's expressing their opinions, why don't YOU pack up and leave? Because the Constitution guarantees us all free speech, not to be silenced by the Government or by you.

I'm thrilled... and hopeful. We do live in a very different place than we did 4 years ago, but we are not responsible for this change... instead we are responsible for strengthening America because of the attacks that have been made on it.

I am very sorry you all feel so sad about how things turned out, but find it strangely ironic that your sadness is caused because you put so much of your hopes, and the gauge of your happiness, on the shoulders of our government. I, in contrast, put my faith in God, and in the American people.

My friends, we are a great nation today, regardless of who won, and I hope that the absurdities and rhetoric of both parties will allow us to unite as Americans in the next few years, but I fear the worst. If we are attacked again, you may have become so warped as to think that we deserve it for electing Bush again.

Your opinions and emotions have merit, but I hope you will find it in your hearts to recognize that neither of these men were criminals... neither of them is who the other made them out to be. Bush is a good man... I think he is an exceptional man, if not the best speaker. I pray that you would put your values and what you hold dear above the government, and accept that over half the country did, in fact, support Bush, and try to understand the reasons for it besides "we're simple-minded".

Truth be told, I held the same sentiments about you: those anonymous faces that were so against Bush. That was until I found out that I had dear friends that also were against Bush... my "simple minds" argument broke down when I look at them. I vehemently disagree with them, but I still respect them. I still respect you, Wil, and all of the other people posting here, and look forward to building a stronger country together with you.

Profile of someone who supports Bush:

I have a BA, a BS, and an MS.
I've scored in the 99th percentile in every standardized test I've evere taken (SAT, etc...).
I've attended both private and public universities.
I've traveled to about half the states in the USA.
I've studied 4 foreign languages, one for 6 years, the others just for a year or less each.
I've traveled to Europe (Germany, Amsterdam, France).
I've traveled to Asia (S. Korea).

I'm not stupid, I'm not ignorant, I'm not a naive.

I'm a lapsed Episcopalian who is hardly a fanatic.

I have gay friends and would like to seem them able to get legal marriages.

I don't support abortion, but I don't support making it illegal.

So why did I vote for Bush? I know plenty of others like me. You can't write us all off as morons or fools. We're not. We're not ultraconservative wackos, either.

Bolie IV

I am so upset that this has happened. In 7 months I will be moving to Tampa from Toronto Canada. And I can say that as bad as the corruption and mismanagement in Canadian politics is, nothing compares to Bush and his administration of liars, imcompitant useless assholes! In three months, my first born child will be here and in eighteen years she will STILL be paying off this administrations blunders and lies. Let us all hang our heads in shame, pray that the next four years will be quick and as painless as possible. In God we Pray. In God we Pray. In God we Pray.

As I posted on my page earlier today; "The problem with democracy is that the country gets the government it really deserves... ...instead of the one it really needs." Maybe four more years will help us to become more deserving of something better.

HEY JEFF,

Funny how every liberal says that republicans and conservatives are mean and spiteful but you all, the so called accepting liberals, call everyone that does not believe like you do and voted for bush uneducated and stupid. Just because I don't believe what you believe does not make me stupid or dumb. Just because I voted for Bush for my reasons, doesn't make me wrong. I think you need to calm down and look at what you are saying. I think you all need a big group hug.

Great. We're going to hell in a handbasket, and all our personal freedoms are going out the window. thanks a lot to the people who voted for Bush. If he screws up anymore than he already has (which I don't think is possible), I blame you.

I just finished hearing the conssesion speech. I had hope. I had so much feeling that there were still more votes there in Ohio. I wished Kerry would have waited until the last count. But we as Americans only get trickle down information. I suppose if we did get the full facts what would we do? What would our true feelings and emotions be? Would we really vote the way we acctually had voted? I suppose we all are fooling ourselves. We all cling to a certain side and go with that.

BTW: Wil you are the man. Don't worry, just like the following of Kerry, you have your own as well that grows every day. I have been reading your site everyday for the last 2 years. You rock man.

I am dismayed and disheartened by the people who are commenting who do not understand the graveness of what happened yesterday.

Bush is in office and the GOP has complete control of the government.

If you can't fathom what that means, people, then you deserve the fucking idiot you re-elected.

Wil--

Every empire must collapse...it's been written in history from the Inca's to the Romans...We too will eventually fall, and I believe that we are starting to crumble...don't be frightened...embrace it; for our future will be formed from it.

I am so saddened and so shocked at America right now. Facts are right under our noses, yet we refuse to acknowledge them. The worst part is knowing that so many people out there voted for the Bush on the basis of illegilizing abortion and banning gay marriage. There are more important things to worry about!!! If you don't agree, don't do, plain and simple. Being from Massachusetts myself, none of that phases me because I know the real issues at hand. I am moving to Portugal.

As someone who supports Americans from my workplace here in Canada, i can definitly say that irrationality empowers the majority of Americans. The results today are further proof of this.

Viva La Resistance

Wil,

I've had to think a long time about what I wanted to say. I knew you wouldn't be happy but your words speak volumes. You're blinded by hatred that can only hurt you in the end. You're allowing this to truly hurt your soul. Whether or not you believe in God or a "presence" in the universe, you do have one. Such hatred for Bush ended a friendship I had with a woman for 27 years. Her hatred poisoned her soul to such an extent that she ended our frienship overnight. Don't you do the same thing with your readers. You're too good for that.

I applaud George Bush's re-election, I applaud John Kerry's concession speech, and I give you a patented Ronald Reagan THUMBS UP, even though you are giving us a little bit of a finger. (See Ron Reagan Jr's. Eulogy for his dad on The Reagan Library web site. www.reaganlibrary.com)

I still like you as an actor and will continue to read your blog everyday as well as buying JAG, as soon as I scrape up a few bucks to afford it. I'm one of those wacky poorer working class Republicans.

Be good and Take Care.

Your other GOP buddy,

Bart

What a bunch of whiners. Look, the reason the Democratic campaigns (losses in congress, too) lost is that they presented no cohesive message and no vision of the future. Bush did. You may dislike the Presidents message but it is cohesive. If you *really* care about your beliefs and causes, organize them and put a cadre of credible leaders together and get them to work toward a common cause. The left just does not have this. I thought John Kerry had this and would have put together an interesting cabinet, but there is not a solid enough philosophical and politically coordinated foundation within the Democratic party to effectively run a country as big and deiverse as ours.

So for next time, the Dems had better ditch folks like Pelosi, Clinton, Brown, etc and look for more thinkers in the vein of Leibermann, Moynihan and to an extent, Kennedy.

Wil. I am saddened for your country today. This is a huge step backwards and it showed the world what the USA really thinks. I am so glad to know about people like you, who think like I do. Sad sad day though for human rights. In 4 years America will look like a much different place I fear. It already looks do different now with your Patriot Act taking away your freedoms. When I was a young girl learning American History I wanted to be an American quite bad because of your country's ideals. Now I am quite glad I stayed put in Canada, where gay men and women have a chance at what we are heterosexuals have, where peace matters more than oil. All the best to you and yours Wil.

For those of you interested in why's of Bush's reelection, please check out:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/epolls.0.html

Look under "most important quality" and ask yourself, do I really want a president who has a 95% approval on religious faith but only a 7% on intelligence? This guy controls the largest permanent army and arsenal in the world!

Just a sad comment on what passes for presidential qualities.

I would like to be the second to welcome all the refugees/emigrants from our neighbours to the south.

Welcome to Canada.

I just recopied "oog"'s comment verbatim because I was essentially going to post the same thing.

I've posted my opinion in my own blog and others so many times today that I don't have the energy to repeat it. Here's something new:

My sympathies to those who did not vote for Bush. To those who did: When Bush messes up just remember that you didn't try to influence change. "Too bad, YOU voted for him." will be my response to Bush supporters who disagree with his actions. Through the democratic process each and every American bears some responsibility for what happens within the government and now its Republican voters who will have to take a small bit of responsibility. Don't complain now, Republicans. Or if you do, try to be proactive too.
Welcome to democracy. Sometimes it sucks.

Those who don't vote but are eligible to have no right to complain at all, in my opinion.

Wil,
The next 4 years don't have to be a disaster. And I don't think that a 51-48 vote count is an "enthusiastic endorsement".

If you and others do not like what the policies are or don't like the bills Congress is working on are, you can get involved. Make friends with your Congressmen (Senators and Representatives). Let them know how you feel. We are only powerless in this process if we allow ourselves to be.

Yes, the special interests and PACs and 527s have the money. But, WE have the vote, not them. If we choose to ignore them, or better, work against them then nothing can stop us.

Email me if you wish to discuss this further.

Wil - I agree wholeheartedly. It feels good to know that we are not alone... My stomach is still upset by this.

I just heard on CNN than the Republicans are ecstatic about their gains in Congress and the White House because now they can finally start drilling up Alaska like they've been wanting. Hey at least Russia supports us...is anyone else as comforted by that as I am?

Another first-time poster here...

I usually try to stay out of politics, but I think there are some important points that people are overlooking...

Let me first state that I am neither pro-Bush nor pro-Kerry. Rather, I just like to think of myself as pro-America.

In all of the "our country is headed for a nightmare" posts, I think people may be forgetting that this country, and its people, really have a political SPECTRUM... people are scattered all along the way from far-left to ultra-right. Just because someone voted for one of the candidates doesn't mean that he or she agrees with EVERY stance, or EVERY statement, or EVERY past or promised action of that candidate. It's just that they feel that one candidate would make a better leader than the other for the next four years. The fact that this election was so close goes to show just how diverse the population of our country is regarding political beliefs.

A colleague sent me a snippet from an op-ed article that something to the effect of: No matter who wins, remember that this country has withstood elections for hundreds of years, and we're still here, and we'll go on being one of the best nations in the world.

The President is just one person in one political office. Yes, he wields enormous influence, but so too do other elected leaders of our country. And, I hope that the winner of this election will exercise the intelligence to consult influential members of both major political parties, for the betterment of our country.

So, without meaning to make this sound like a group hug, I'm just trying to point out, in short, that a vote for a candidate isn't necessarily a 100% endorsement.

Flame away, if you feel that you need to. Thanks for listening.

I love all the people who say, "If you don't like it, leave, we don't want you." Right. Because you can't question anything that happens. Get in line with the rest of the country, right? No disputing allowed.

Bite me.

I would just like to say a few things. First of all, thank you Wil, for using your voice for the good of America. I think a lot of people are misconstrued about the depth of the problems our nation faces. First of all, we have a man elected for FOUR more years who suggests God is giving him a hand in ruling this country. Does this not seem problematic? Is God speaking to him? Does this seem like a rational leader? A man who says the world deserves freedom as our own freedoms are being restricted at home by "Patriot Acts". The whole name of the new law is misguided, if you dont give up your freedoms you aren't a patriot. What BS! A man who touts "equality" as the poor are becoming poorer and the rich...well, talk to all the corporations who have nice shining pennies in their pockets thanks to demolishing and rebuilding a country. How about 100,000 woman, men and children DEAD that had nothing to do with 9-11. How about 1200 soldiers dead who just wanted a damn chance to go to college and get out of poverty. You think we are being protected? DO you think Bush's foreign policies are protecting you? When he is inciting hatred across the WORLD? It wasn't a group of American Liberals who crashed airplanes into the WTC, was it? I feel so much shame for you people. What ever happened to HUMANITY? There was an incident, a horrible, horrible incident on 9-11. We went to Afghanistan to destroy the people who did this to us. Did we get them? Did we do anything but provide them means of shipping record breaking crops of Heroin into our country? The Bush administration used 9-11 to take away your freedoms and basically write a blank check to take your liberties, invade a country and award the rich. How can you be so frightened that you think this is the best course for us? You think Bush will protect you? He cant even protect the soldiers that are in the war zone right now. I dont need his kind of protection and truth be told, the true MAJORITY doesnt need it either. I am a female, veteran, mother, a USAF contractor and patriot. How can you people be so blind? This is a sad day for America. Put on the rubber boots and prepare for the sh*t storm.

Democrats need to realize that they can't please everyone all the time, it makes you look indecisive and wishy-washey. They have to have a strong platform to stand on, unfortunately they chose a candidate that never could be pinned down on an issue, no matter how much you spun it. Democrats made a mistake when they fell in love with Kerry's uniform and Vietnam War service and failed to look deeper into his soul and his past. They thought that a military "war hero" would certainly swoon the conservatives. Did they really think America was that thick and shallow? Had you Democrats chosen Dick Gephardt or Joe Lieberman as your nominee a democrat would have won yesterday. Heck, as someone who voted for Bush yesterday, I might have voted democrat instead, if I had been given a real, palatable choice. The clue democrats need to buy is to come a little ways back from the left, move more towards the middle in your beliefs and rhetoric and you'll find America. That's what Clinton did and it worked for him, twice. Remember that next time around. Stop wallowing in self-pity and think outside your cocoon!

The mood here in DC does not seem to be one of celebration. The streets are actually VERY EERILY quiet.

I am still too stunned and shocked to believe that this is happening. A homeless guy broke the news to me this morning at a soup kitchen where I volunteer by whispering, "We've got four more years of him."

For months now I've participated in the Adopt A Platoon program. It's not important that I don't support the war, but at least I can show our soldiers that we won't forget about them over there.

You know how Canadians wear their flag pins on the backpacks when they travel? As if to say, "I'm not American"? I'll be wearing my Kerry pin whenever I leave the country. I want to remind the world that we didn't all vote for W.

I love all the people who say, "If you don't like it, leave, we don't want you." Right. Because you can't question anything that happens. Get in line with the rest of the country, right? No disputing allowed.

Well, I see the "I'm moving to Canada" type arguments as a variation on the old "I didn't get my way and I'm going off to sulk" line.

Rich

When I heard about the election results, this is the first place I came to for solace in your wise words. With seemingly so many against Bush, how did he get so many votes?

me? i do not trust those votes for a nanosecond. neither do i believe that americans feel bush is the best leader of our country. we've been tricked before, and this time is no different. the neo-cons have had four years to rig this election. for starters, take a look on mike moore's site at the letters he received on voting. something is rotten in denmark! er...washington.

feeling sad is bad for your health. smile and gird up. :)

All I can say is Thank God for the 22nd Amendment.

I saw an interesting stat earlier online. If you assume that the people who didn't vote don't care one way or another (yes, a leap), then really only 28% of the country is behind one candidate or the other. This number puts the "Two Americas" into perspective.

I think the more telling difference is the geographical divide, as mentioned by several other posters.

thx

Well, this is my first post to your site. I live in Austin, Texas and I am completely shocked by the outcome. What is wrong with America? What is wrong with w? I am sick of those "good ole texas boys" getting away with shit! The next 4 years will break America. What a perfect time for Osama to attack again since our focus is Iraq. A ban on gay marriage?!?! How does gay marriage mess with the sanctity of marriage? How?!?! I demand to know! When people like britney spears can run off to Vegas-get married and then 55 hours later say "Oops.. let's undo this"-that is how marriage became unsacred. Us heteros screwed that up so long ago. Shame on the majority of americans! Shame on you! sure w seems like the type of guy to have a beer with you at the local bar but he is also the type of self-serving asshole that will screw you over just to make a buck! We also need to look at the DNC. What a bunch of lame asses! That is where we need to make some drastic changes. Sorry for my rant-but I am still in shock and disbelief and trying to figure out how to make it through the next 4 years... so long Roe V. Wade, so long Civil Liberties, so long america.

Lets not forget what i like to call "the Diebold effect". Voting machines built by private companies, by HEAVY republican supporting owners who swore their full support in re-electing the false president.

Lets ignore the NATIONWIDE exit polls that showed a STAGGERING Kerry victory.

Heres a prediction from another website i visit often:
"Much confusion exists over the 2004 election, expected to be a sweep for Kerry. Did not the turnout indicate this, the long and anxious faces on the Bush camp on election eve indicate this, and the astonishing number of newspaper endorsements going to Kerry indicate this? As was known going into the election, 1/3 of the votes would be under the cover of Diebald computers, no paper trail, central tabulating machines with an extra set of counts that could override the real count, all designed to steal the vote, which it did, particularly in Florida and Ohio. Would the massive turnout in Palm Beach be for Bush, after what occurred in 2000? Could Florida be trusted after losing 58,000 absentee ballots in a Democratic county in the month before the election?"

Also check out http://blackboxvoting.com/

I'm watching tv and Cock Chenny just said Pres. Bush won the greatest majority of popular votes than any other president in history.

Excuse me as i go vomit up my lucky charms.

After I heard the election results, this is the first place I came online, to seek solace in your words.

I have what may be a silly question....

Kerry conceded, but what if 11 days from now, when all the absentee and provisional ballots are counted, it is discovered that John Kerry WON Ohio...or dare I even say it...Florida?

Would Kerry's concession still stand, or would they announce the change and make him President-elect Kerry?

Is there a law anywhere that explains how to handle that?

I REALLY want to know!!

When I heard the election results, this is the first place I came, to seek solace in your words, Wil. I am officially terrified at the possible future of our country, especially the Supreme Court.

We're in for a wild ride. 8 years of Bush will make Reagan look like a friggin' saint.

To me, it was a referendum on the values that will control America (and probably, the world) for at least the next 25 years. The values that were chosen were those of deliberate ignorance, religious intolerence, and defiance of the Constitution, rather than the values of tolerence, education, thoughtfulness, and the rule of law. I don't know that Mr Bush would have left office quietly or without multiple legal challenges, but it doesn't seem that it will be an issue now (I'm not of the opinion that he is quite so stupid as to believe he could declare martial law and effectively be declared president for life, but I know there are many who do think he would have tried it). And here is a frightening thought: Ashcroft for President in 2008.

There is a rampant fear of intellectualism in this country. People are afraid of Kerry because he actually takes time to think about decisions and he thinks before he acts, unlike Bush, who acts and then makes up the reasoning later.

Every campaign this year was run on fear, especially fear of other people. 'Other people are going to take my money', 'other people are trying to get the same rights I have which makes them equals (read: like me).' That scares the shit out of people who listen to folks like Bush.

Anyone who actually voted for Bush because Kerry speaks French is a moron. Anyone who makes less than $30,000 a year and voted for Bush for economic reasons is a moron. Anyone who voted against Kerry because they think he's somehow elitist and would rather sit and have a beer with Bush needs to get the hell out of my country.

"Apparently, my country holds a fundamentally different set of values than I thought we did, and that scares the shit out of me."

This statement is a rather rude one in my opinion. And something I always find myself shaking my head at, when a rampant political being utters it.

I voted Independent, but had I been forced to choose between the two 'major' parties, I would have voted Bush.

According to your recent post, this makes me 'simple' .. and by inference, infantile.

Political lesson number one, don't piss off your constituents.

Living in this country your whole life, and SEEING how this past election was not only the largest voting population since 1968, but how CLOSE it was, should tell you the opposite message. People came out in DROVES to vote, and they voted so close on the line, that it was what I would call an ‘exciting’ election. Just because they didn’t vote for the candidate you wanted to win doesn’t mean they voted wrong, it doesn’t make their choice in voting any less well thought out, or any less valid.

As much as some people do not want to admit, the current administration has done some good. Considering the HUGE economic downturn that began with the market adjustments in 2000 – a 4 year road of eventual recovery is pretty damn amazing. Ask Japan how pleasant an extended recession is. As much as war sucks, and I don’t agree with the one we are in by the way, Economic down turn in a capitalistic economy will kill more people, faster.

Is Bush the perfect example? No. Was he my choice? No. Did I vote for him? No. But over ½ the country did. Saying you are afraid for the future because more people (barely) voted for the other candidate – that’s just plain ignorant. That’s like assuming John Kerry was for same sex marriage because he was a Democrat.

I'm suffering with you, despite I don't want to be so arrogant as to say things are that much better over here. At least you guys in America got this two-terms-only-regulation (that is, if Mr. Bush doesn't launch an attempt to alter it). Remember, we had to endure Mr. Kohl for SIXTEEN years!
Okay, today was a black day, but concluding from your rockin' website (I've been meaning to say that for years!) and from what my American friends say, I strongly believe that the American nation will get over this nightmare soon enough, and get the president it deserves in 2008.

Will,
I did cry. I cried for at least 5 minutes. What irritates me more is seeing the bright red state of Texas indicating the Texas support of George W. Being a life long resident of the state I feel like my vote and my voice wasn't even heard. It is a sad day in history and I pray that we as a country will survive what the future administration has in store.

I'm utterly disgusted, dejected, and depressed after last night. Apparently our country actually hungers for Bush's horrible, arrogant, and offensive rule. Not to mention his contempt for civil liberties and the Constitution.

Somebody at a message board I visit mentioned the concept of the Northeast seceding from the USA. I'm certain they weren't serious, and I'm not sure I am either, but I wonder how something like that could be done? And as I'm just a terrified PC tech nobody, I figured this board has much higher exposure than anything I can put out, and maybe somebody here with more legal/diplomatic knowledge might have some comments about the idea.

It certainly appears to me there is no way to bring the IMO bible-thumping hypocrites in the mid-west and south to any sort of accord with the Northeast and West Coast.

As yoda said..

Much fear I sense in you.

What a bunch of whiners.

You're not the only one scared, Wil. I'm scared in a way I've never been scared in my life.

Things have gone so wrong, and I fear we may be too far gone.

We are so fucked.

And you're right - the nightmare is just beginning...

God help us all!

[b]No. It's just not possible. I would vote for a plate of fried okra before I voted for George W. Bush.[/b]

Good to see that your making a logical, rational, decision .. you know .. instead of voting from the emotional part of your brain

You should never vote to get someone out of office, you should vote to get someone who's platform you believe in, INTO office.

From all the polls, it's pretty obvious that, despite his victory, America is not overly thrilled with Bush.

I think the reason Kerry lost is because he failed to prove that he would do a better job.

I think, given a decent, viable option, America would have voted out Bush.

Most Kerry supporters, from what I can see, weren't Kerry supporters more than they were Anti-Bush. Kerry was a looming, dark unknown, Bush was a known entity.

Maybe the majority of America just doesn't support the steady move towards socialized medicine, continued income redistribution, and the class warfare the has been what the democratic party has stood for for too long.

Not all who voted for Bush are right-wing, religious nut-jobs, although I'm sure it makes you all feel better to think so.

Bush has been in office nearly 4 years - we were attacked because Clinton dropped the ball on everything - yet the last 4 years have been scandel free. - Commented by Chris earlier.

Let me see if I've got this completely correct. You think that Bush has had no scandals in four years? None? Let's see where to begin.

1) Torture - Bush specifically charged his Attorney General with coming up with a legal definition of torture that would allow them to ignore the Geneva Convention. This policy was then hidden up and to the point that photos and video showed US forces using it. Further exposure was then denied by the White House in Gitmo. We then proceed to complain when our soldiers are captured but torture is appled to them. Do you feel secure with a leader who feels that torture is something that needs a legal defense?

2) Haliburton - Haliburtion, Haliburton, Haliburton. The FBI is currently investigating pressure brought by the White House on behalf of Haliburton to award them a no-bid contract in Iraq. Payments to Haliburton by the Pentagon are currently being systematically stopped due to repeated instances of over charging and fraudulent billing.

3) Ghost Detainees/Illegal Seizure - Here in Oregon the FBI used sections of the Patriot Act that have been deemed unconstitutional to hold citzens without a trial. Only intense public pressure forced action by the government. Additionally the White House, in memo's to the Pentagon, directly requested that the Pentagon hide detainees they deemed important. Can you imagine being dropped into a cell, with no recourse, completely at the whim of the government? I hate to say this, but your US Citizenship means exactly nothing in this case.

For any of these scandals, or even the whiff of any of these scandals, a Democratic president would have been strung up in effigy. Instead Bush was re-elected.

My values are liberal, much more so than the majority of Americans. I admit as much an understand that my views will not necessarily prevail. But does my not wanting to be tortured, imprisoned indefinitely without the possibility of a hearing or even anyone knowing where I am, or direct cronyism make me out of the mainstream.

I think we all have reason to worry.

Thank you, Wil, for putting into words what I feel. It's definitely a very sad day for me. But looking on a more poitive note... at least Bush can clean up the mess he made.

To every non-American: I'm so sorry.

To every American who didn't vote for Bush: "Let us not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness." --James Thurber

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Wil, despite your prediction that the next 4 years will be an absolute disaster, America will survive. We are bigger than our President. We live in a constitutional republic, where the rule of law is supreme, not the rule of one politician. You may fear him, loathe him, whatever, but ultimately his effect on your life will be very small.
Unknot your panties and buck up, little camper. After all, now you get to vote for Hillary in 2008!

Well...that's that I guess

I'm with you Wil. Well said.
The Trash Heep Weeps for America.

I won't mince words. I hate Bush, what he stands for and I certainly didn't vote for him. In the immortal words of Molly Ivins, "He's not mean, he's not dumb he's just ... very limited." Well, however he chooses to exercise his "limitations", we need to keep our eyes on the ball to survive the next 4 years. I will say that I was really jazzed yesterday to see how many people turned out to vote. Since the presidency is now AGAIN in the toilet, we need to keep our eyes on the Supreme Court.

Keep the faith Wil. We the people can make the difference in our own state.

As I said in another thread, small-mindedness, fear and ignorance have carried the day. This is a country full of ignorant sheep who will do what they are told. I lost track of the number of times I heard people on the radio say things like "We shouldn't go against the President in a time of war, it will make us look weak," "The President now has experience," "His religous views are important" or "We know what we're getting with Bush." That so few of these people could come up with a real reason to re-elect Bush based on his current record, and yet re-elected him frightens me.

I kind of half blame the main-stream media too. Look at all tthe time that was wasted arguing about who did what 35 years ago during Vietnam in lieu of important matters such as whether we were right to invade Iraq, the ballooning deficit, weighing the true costs and beenfits of privatizing social security or even Bush's over turning bi-partisan environmental regulations enacted decades ago.

Look at it this way. Things have to hit rock bottom before they get better. As this country has shown, we haven't bottomed out. As this country has also shown, it can handle a lot worse then an unqualified President.

It may take a long time, our children may be cursing us for the mess we're giving them (I'm the same age as you Wil, though with a younger family), but I believe that the country will ultimately right itself. Even in the darkest times, we need to be optimistic and think of ways to work to a better future. If we don't, we are truly farked.

First, let me say how classy Kerry lost. I admire him for not turning this into another Florida (though apparently Edwards was frothing at the mouth). I also found his concession speech very sincere and appropriate.

Now, Will, as far as the "national nightmare" just beginning, it is only a nightmare because you desperately want it -- no, NEED IT -- to be. If you didn't dramatize life with George W. Bush as President as a nightmare, what on earth would you complain about?

How typical and disappointing, your low estimation of you fellow citizens. Has it yet dawned on you that maybe, just MAYBE, you and 'we' have a lot more in common than we have differences? Why does everything have to be so polemic, so dramatic?

Bush got elected rather emphatically, so that means everyone who voted for him is worthy of your fright? How lonely it must be on top of that lofty perch, Will.

It's easy to rail against people over a wire, Will, on a blog. But I find that when I meet someone face-to-face, regardless their political leanings, I seek and find what we share. As a result, I get along famously with my more liberal friends and family.

Anyway, enough for now.

I feel sick. And I agree, the worst part of it is that he now feels like he's got a "mandate". The most voters ever...yeah. Didn't the most voters ever ALSO vote for someone else?

Rich said:

"Well, I see the "I'm moving to Canada" type arguments as a variation on the old "I didn't get my way and I'm going off to sulk" line."

Well as a gay man who watched the majority of citizens in many states (and I'm very afraid this will be popping up on a Wisconsin ballot soon) explicitly ban me from entering into a civil marriage (and enjoying the privileges and protections a civil marriage provides). I don't think my considering emigration is equivalent to "going off to sulk".

Instead, I think it's more akin to the spirit of many of the original colonists who left Europe because they weren't allowed to live their lives the way they wanted to. Fleeing persecution and all that. Of course the original colonists were probably just a bunch of sulkers. But I guess I should just STFU and enjoy my "liberty for some" huh?

Or maybe I shouldn't presume that I'm smart enough to pass blanket judgment on others who are considering emigration. Not even when I'm safely and blithely engaging in the often shortsighted, puke-like, vitriolic, and/or BS-axiomatic act of (more-or-less) anonymously posting to a blog's comment page.

First, let me say how classy Kerry lost. I admire him for not turning this into another Florida (though apparently Edwards was frothing at the mouth). I also found his concession speech very sincere and appropriate.

Now, Wil, as far as the "national nightmare" just beginning, it is only a nightmare because you desperately want it -- no, NEED IT -- to be. If you didn't dramatize life with George W. Bush as President as a nightmare, what on earth would you complain about?

How typical and disappointing, your low estimation of you fellow citizens. Has it yet dawned on you that maybe, just MAYBE, you and 'we' have a lot more in common than we have differences? Why does everything have to be so polemic, so dramatic?

Bush got elected rather emphatically, so that means everyone who voted for him is worthy of your fright? How lonely it must be on top of that lofty perch, Wil.

It's easy to rail against people over a wire, Wil, on a blog. But I find that when I meet someone face-to-face, regardless their political leanings, I seek and find what we share. As a result, I get along famously with my more liberal friends and family.

Anyway, enough for now.

Kerry looked very poised today.

I voted for Bush and I'm not afraid. I'm not scared. I'm quite pleased with how things are going in the Middle East. Nothing is perfect and mistakes have been made. But I expected the war to be worse. And I still supported it.

As far as torture goes, Bush wanted a memo explaining exactly what was and was not allowed under the various laws, domestic and international. Keep in mind that sending your child to his or her room without supper could be considered torture depending on how you read the rules. Sometimes when interrogating prisoners, you do things that aren't nice. Personally, I would want to know exactly what was and was not allowed. The "torture memo" detailed what was and was not allowed. I read it. It was not some kind of "how can we get away with torture" memo.

Given that Bush inherited the Internet Bubble and the economic devastation wrought be 9/11, we have had a remarkably mild economic downturn and fairly swift recovery. If you start counting from the moment Bush took office, you're counting 9/11 and the Internet Bubble against him when his first budget wasn't even implemented until a year later.

I'm sure that there has been corruption and waste in Iraq. My own company has some corruption and waste. I bet if you looked into any large organization, you'd find corruption and waste. Let's be vigilant and punish it where we find it, but don't get all indignant and upset just becuase some exists.

Oh, and Enron collapsed under Bush, but much of the wheeling and dealing was done under Clinton.

Did y'all notice that the FMA failed to pass? Did anyone think it would? Do you think Bush really thought it would? States are voting to restrict gay marriage. That's where the problem is. Bush can't do anything about that.

What I see are Liberals and Democrats who are fear mongering. What I see are Liberals and Democrats who are name-calling. I know people who support Kerry who I like and respect. I don't take their support for Kerry as evidence of some kind of derangement or mental malfunction. I wouldn't be crying under my covers at night if Kerry'd been elected. We've had worse Presidents and we've had better ones.

Oh, and if you go look, Reagan, the supposedly reviled evil President, won both times by a landslide.

Bolie IV

Canada, anyone?

I think the presidency just got decided by the Republicans' superior ability to read their audience. People vote for who they think is the best leader, not who has the best policies. Kerry's relatively new on the scene, and didn't ever really emerge as a charismatic leader. Bush, on the other hand, comes across like a character played by Jimmy Stewart in a Frank Capra film (if you don't listen too carefully to what he's saying).

This will all happen again in 2008 if the Democrats can't find a candidate that has that presidential "it" factor.

I won't join my fellow Canadians in inviting you guys to come live here, because I think you have a lovely country, and that you should stay there and fix it. Also, although I love my country, Canada's not exactly a lotus-land; we have our problems here too.

It's gotten very dark all of a sudden. Very dark.

I know you're a writer and all, but don't be so dramatic Wil.

And nobody's getting drafted. Where do you guys even GET this stuff?

Honestly, I think your description of the situation is very good Wil. For liberals and democrats, your nightmare does continue. You've languished under a party unable to identify itself in a way that shows it can help America Prosper. I really feel for you guys.

As a republican, this was how the 90s felt to me. All I can say is until your party can present a credible arguement concerning its values you will continue to struggle.

We in other countries feel your pain and we are sitting here with our heads shaking trying to work out how anyone could re elect Bush.

Now is the time to be afraid, what 4 more years or this dangerous fool will mean for the world one can only guess, but one thing is certain. It won't be good.

If no one is getting drafted, I'd like to know where GWB is going to find the manpower to finish the global policing, and fix Iraq. Maybe he's going to be sweeping the ghettos? Enlisting the imprisoned?

That's an answer I haven't heard.

Save us jebus save us!

Mr. Wheaton - You phrased it exactly right. I couldn't have said it better myself. I truly am afraid. Four years feels like a very long time.

Though it's too late right now, I kind of was hoping for some major voter fraud on the part of the Republicans in order to explain the disparity that happened yesterday. I can't believe that much of our nation is that ignorant or willing to give Bush a chance after four years of lies.

I'm still hoping this is a nightmare.

Here Here! I agree and am equally saddened. Let's just try to make it through to the next election.

Here in Austin Texas there are already voter irregularities. The voting commission cast four votes for a write-in candidate as an audit. Those votes did not come back to them. They are currently search the system trying to find out why.

Wil,

You surround yourself with liberal Hollywood, you read all the liberal blogs. You have brainwashed yourself into believing the worst about everything. You are completely out of touch with mainstream America. Mainstream America is the Reagan Republicans and the Reagan Democrats who share an optimism about out country. We voted today and we prevailed. America--love it or leave it.

This is one of the saddest days in recent history.
I feel like crying to be honest.
Bush scares the hell out of me and I am just glad that my son will not be draft age before this is over.

sorry wil.
:(

I keep thinking how stupid people are that they voted against their
best interests by voting for Bush. Like the kid who works at Subway who was happy that Bush won. Yeah he will help you get affordable health insurance slacko.

The thing is that I am voting against my best interests.
It is in my best interests to get tax breaks.
I don't need my taxes to fund Medicaid, Medicare properly.
My kids are smart enough that they will succeed in school no matter
what the funding levels.
I have great health insurance and I barely pay a f&*(ing dime for it.

GAGGGGGGGG. Please excuse me, I just got myself sick.

So, Oorgo...you mean to say you're simply ASSUMING there will be a draft because you can't fathom a war scenario without one? Graduated from West Point with flying colors, did we?

The Democrats were the ones that introduced the idea of a draft recently, not the republicans. To be fair, my understanding is that the Democrats hoped it would generate more anti-war sentiment that would translate into more support for Kerry.

Show me one credible source where it's been said that Bush plans to activate a draft.

"America--love it or leave it."

That's just about the most idiotic, redneck thing I've red all day.

Thanks, Freeman, for wasting the 2 seconds of my life it took to read your post. And the 45 seconds repling.

The majority of voters have spoken, and they say Bush is the man.

It's not who is right and who is wrong. It's about electing someone who has ridden the train of divisiveness for the past 4 years, and we apparently do not care.

I do not fear. I love my country. We will prevail.

Everyone who voted for Nader: Happy now?

exellent blog entry on bb:

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/11/03/kerry_concedes.html

I am about to horribly insult a lot of people, but I need to say this anyway. For those who are horribly angry at me, my hotmail is gbbloom@hotmail.com and if that's full, yell at me at zevwolf@lycos.com - I willingly open myself up because I believe in what I'm going to say.

This nation has just proved that it is a Fundamentalist Christian nation... which makes us not much different than a Fundamentalist Islamic nation. There are Christians out there who are perfectly good and sane people, just as there are many Muslims who wouldn't DREAM of attacking another human being, let alone attempt a terrorist attack.

Yet, I offer you this. There is a nation in the world whose people rose up and cried out "we will not tolerate people who differ from what our religion preaches! we will NOT permit their kind to prosper here!" A nation whose leader has taken an extremist view on that religion, and is looking to craft the government such that it follows those policies, threatening legal repurcussions for breaking this religious moral law. Furthermore, all of this is done while shoving aside massive job loss, homelessness, a flagging economy, among other issues. Many Americans would shout outrage at this, and suggest that we immediately step in, so as to show the nation how to properly act - even going so far as to forcefully remove their leader.

Except, it's us. So, does that mean we look out for an invasion? Should we worry about attacks on Washington to remove Bush? Do I have to worry about my own safety, even though I don't support the policies of the man?

It's funny... I'm not gay, and I don't really have any gay friends. But I look at homosexuals being reduced to second rate status, and I remember the Jim Crow laws against the Blacks. And, as a Jew, I wonder if I'll come next - after all, we believe Jesus was just another Jew. Still, the thing is, I really don't CARE about gay marriages. Have em, don't have em, whatever. But tell me, why does THIS ONE ISSUE come above all of the others? Our jobs head to other nations, people have no health insurance, we have a horrible dependency on oil... but hey, at least gays can't get hitched.

Again, if this truly offended you, then you're welcome to email me and yell at me, I'm not ashamed. But, honestly, are we as a nation so in fear of a few gay men spending their lives together that it's ok that your kids need to skip a trip to the dentist? Can someone in middle america - all of you 'red' states - please give me an idea of what these "moral issues" that trump the real issues are??

It has been said that in a Democracy you get the Government you deserve.

You obviously deserve Bush, best get on with it.

To those who are so paranoid about the military draft--we have 1,500,000 men and women in uniform in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. Of these, 130,000 are in Iraq and 1,370,000 are not in Iraq. If the President needs more troops in Iraq he has more than enough to draw from--and these are all volunteers who have decided to serve their country unselfishly.

Gary,

Not everyone who supported Bush is a Fundamentalist Christian. You've made a leap of logic that you cannot support.

For what it's worth, I voted Libertarian.

I was totally prepared to wake up this morning to good news. I was ready to spend the day walking around singing "America - Fuck Yeah!" because that song sums up patriotism (and Trey Parker is a goddamned genius.)

Instead, I'm singing the Bummer Remix.

How pathetic - it's not the end of the world people! It's interesting to see that Kerry won the west coast and the north east and with the exceptions of MN,IL, and MI Bush won THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. Apparently the political views of the rest of the country don't quite match up with most of the people posting here. How interesting.....

I am angry for all those in Ohio (where I live) whose votes were never counted. 170,000 "provisional" votes were taken yesterday, which was a controversial issue in itself. Many of those challenged were first time voters or recently moved (and in the surge of voter registration there were bound to be paperwork errors on the election committee side). I heard that in 2000, 90% of the challenged votes were determined legitimate. What freedom do we have if our votes aren't even counted?

Do you remember a similar uproar when Reagan was elected? Not only once, but twice. The rest of the civilized world mourned for us and our being such dimwitted cowboys. Europe decried our efforts to stand up to the Soviets and said that all we were doing was pushing the world close to nuclear annihilation. His economic policies of free enterprise, lower taxes and not being held hostage by inflexible labor laws and regualtions were considered inhumane and favoring only the rich.

Wake up you simple minded folk! America is the strongest, most vibrant nation in the world by a long shot. We got their by empowering our citizens, allowing our economy to move freely, keeping the burden of government low and leading with strength. I am disturbed by the number of you that shallowly analyze our country and our role in the world. Reagan's decisions to stand up to the Soviets led to the end of their empire and freedom for hundreds of millions of people. His decisions to cut taxes and regulations led to one of the greatest economic expansions of all time and set the stage for the tremendous economy we have had since. Your heroes in Europe have stagnated. Their economies have gone nowhere and unemployment is endemic. They would not have defeated the Soviets, removed Saddam from Kuwait in 1990, could not even control Bosnia, and would have not gone into Afghanistan.

Ah, but they would not have invaded Iraq either, you say.
Exactly, because they do not have the vision of the power of liberty bestowed upon an oppressed people. History will ultimately judge Iraq as a bold, decisive move in progress of human liberty, just as they now judge Reagan's approach to the Soviets as finally being the one that worked. Give liberty a chance. Give the American people some credit. Get out of the way.

I'm so sorry, Wil! I was so sure that Kerry would win! I was so disappointed!

If you like, you can move to Canada. We'd be happy to have you! Toronto is the Hollywood of the North, after all....

*sigh* In a perfect world, democracy would work. But this world isn't perfect.

Gary,

I am not a fundamentalist Christian. If you think Bush is enacting Christian fundamentalism, then you are seeing something quite different from what I'm seeing.

Here's something interesting:

http://www.americansovereign.com/articles/other/countybycounty.htm

My guess is that we'll see even more red counties this year. The Democratic party is becoming a regional party.

The economy was sluggish because of the Internet Bubble (Clinton) and 9/11 (Terrorists), not Bush.

The War has consumed an tiny portion of our GDP.

We took out Afghanistan because it was home to Al Qaeda.

We took out Iraq because Saddam was not cooperating with the terms of his surrender. He wouldn't even pretend to play nice. We've been using diplomatic pressure (backed up by our willingness to invade Iraq) to shut down the Syrian nuclear weapons program and gain cooperation from other nations in the region. Without the stick of Iraq, we probably wouldn't have seen the cooperation.

None of the Bush supporters I know would stand for rolling back of Constitutional rights or a Bush-run police state. We'd fight it just as much as anyone else. Maybe more so, we all have loads of guns... ;)

So don't fear. Just because Bush got a lot of votes doesn't mean that those of us who voted for him will blindly follow him or that we even like Ashcroft. I like Rumsfield. I like Condaleeza. I like Dick Cheney. I don't like Ashcroft.

Bolie IV

Quoting Brian: "Ah, but they would not have invaded Iraq either, you say. Exactly, because they do not have the vision of the power of liberty bestowed upon an oppressed people."

"Bestowed" is an interesting choice of words.

Wil....yes I'm with you it's a sad day for America.

I certainly consider this a loss for civil liberties, ecology & peace...but...

"Why should there not be a patient confidence in the ultimate justice of the people? Is there any better or equal hope in the world?"
Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861.

I'll echo what everyone else has said here (at least those of you who aren't in complete denial about how bad the first 4 Bush years have been). I feel the same sadness, fear, dread... I've got some advice for all of us (myself included):

GET OVER IT!

We've got work to do. This isn't over by a long shot. The hopes we'd pinned on Kerry were a long shot anyway, and there honestly wasn't all that much evidence to guarantee that he'd be all that much better than Bush. Give yourself until tomorrow to grieve, then get busy. You can choose to be victims for the next four years, or you can work to make America and the world a better place. www.votetoimpeach.org and www.moveon.org look like they might be good places to start. No, I'm not affilliated with those organizations and am not just here to advertise for them. They're just places I am starting to learn about activism. Canada's not an option because there are too many people I love here who I'd miss too much to leave. But I don't plan to spend the next four years depressed and helpless. I hope none of you lot will, either.

One of my favorite things about reading Wil's site is that the forums are not the type to be reduced to name calling or sour words. Leave it to this election to change even that.

I admit that I have been fighting back tears today and had terrible dreams last night. That is a reaction to my fears. Pessimistically I get caught up in these fears sometimes and keep Europe and Canada in the back of my mind. Most of the time, though, I am able to see through my own fears and everyone else's anger.

One of my biggest fears now is that people will fall silent. The throng that turned out to vote this time will not return. This I fear will occur due to the events of last night and today. John Kerry gave up before everyone's vote got counted. Some voices were not heard. A good deal of people will react to this by not bothering to vote next time. I react to it by wishing I could vote for all the people who waste that right.

I try to look at a hopeful side though:
1. This wasn't a landslide. Although he probably will try, Bush can't claim that the country chose him.
2. New Hamshire has fallen into the blue category with the rest of New England. For once I feel that my vote counted at least in my own state.
3. Illinois-- Barack Obama-- He fills me with a good deal of hope.

I plan to fight to keep Roe v Wade. I plan to fight for the right to marry the person I love. I plan to fight for the respect of those who were once out allies.

This is not over.

Wil,
I know I am in the minority here at wwdn but I am so happy that Bush was re-elected. I was scared last night when I went to bed and the race was closer than I was comfortable with. I tossed and turned all night. I too like one of your readers above try to stay away from the political issues you get into as I have different views but that is why this is such a great country we live in. I know there are those of you out there (lots of you at this site and particualrly in CA) that are completely against Bush and all he stands for. I believe he is a great man with morals. That isn't to say that I agree with him 100% of the time. But I know that Bush has never been a traitor, never did he put the lives of our men at risk for his actions while in Viet Nam. I believe that he is the best the answer for the US!
One nation under God! No matter whom is in charge!

For all the gloating and wailing and gnashing of teeth, this election was essentially a coin toss.

A Newsweek poll last week showed that as many as 9% of eligible voters had not decided whom they would vote for. That means that in a race this tight, on election day, it was pretty much 50/50 which candidate would win.

Am I surprised? No. Am I disappointed? Yes. In 2000, I didn't vote because I had lost hope for the country. This year, I did vote, for exactly the same reason.

to Baobab:

I've been called a redneck quite often. I have a Confederate flag on the tailgate of my truck right next to a big white W. And the phrase "America--love it or leave it" dates back to the Vietnam War when war protesters were burning the American flag in the streets just as today they're wiping their feet on the office of the Presidency. And P.S., I have lots of black friends.

I had the pleasure of spending time with my daughter yesterday as we waited in line to vote in New Hampshire. It was her first time.

We were having a coffee downtown and a elderly woman came in who was confused about where her polling place was (they had just changed the polling place for this election). I walked with her for about an hour (it was only about 1/4 mile but we had to stop often). I offered to call one of the campaigns to arrange a ride but she said she didn't want anyone to see her being weak and she wanted to vote to get that bastard out of office who was getting all our boys killed for no reason.

That afternoon I was holding Kerry signs on a street corner with a Dominican man who recently became a citizen and we talked about how so many Americans take what they are told at face value and don't want to work to make things better.

I felt guilty because yes I gave money, wore a button and spoke to friends about the issues (alienating a few in the process) and donated a whole day and was feeling pretty proud of myself. This man who had many less opportunities than I have.

Yes, maybe we get the president we deserve but did they?

i know it sucks that Bush won, but look on the bright side.... Hillary Clinton for President in 4 years instead of 8!

Apparently, my country holds a fundamentally different set of values than I thought we did, and that scares the shit out of me.

Me too, Wil. I went to bed hopeful, and feel like I woke up in a strange foreign country that, circumstances being different, I would not choose to vacation in.

I find myself wondering, what's defective about me and my friends. We seem so normal, but we're apparently completely out of step with the people around us. And we find it hard to imagine how that can be, since we all think we're completely rational.

It's kind of surreal.

Thank you for your words Wil.
I feel the same way.
*sigh I am so sad.

You all are a bunch of God damn whiners...if any one needs a ride to Canada, I'll personally drive you to the Ambassador Bridge FOR FREE.

As I sit here it saddens me that Bush was re elected, he could/will do more damage to your country that makes me very uncomfortable to even think about, however as a canadian looking in I can't imagine how you feel knowing what could happen to your counrty. Living in a country that is directly affected by yours I wasn't really antcipating either candidate to be elected with Kerry not supporting more trade with Canada and getting the beef trade open again and Bush really not taking a position on it for that issue Bush was the better man but what he has done to your counrty sickens me and maybe assasination is not such a bad idea (kidding). I know this is going to be a hard 4 years and i just hope the next guy isn't worse (does Nixon have a son?). From a girl looking in --- keep your chins up and remember to eat 1/2 cup of bran everyday and you will feel better -- regular even (ask WIlliam fucking Shatner)

Seriously, people, if you're REALLY SCARED of the direction of this country, then you have many alternatives, including joining your pacifist allies in Canada and Europe. If you're just saying that you're scared for rhetorical value, then accept the fact that some take you at face value and will tell you to "Love it or leave it".

Otherwise, take a chill pill and come off the ledge. And start planning to present the American public with a legitimate candidate in 2008, rather than an empty suit from Massachusetts. And if you're seriously contemplating throwing Shrillary Clinton out there in 4 years, be prepared to be "scared" for 12 more years since she has as much chance of winning as I do.

We're screwed.

I'm not a US citizen or resident, but like him or not, but for the first time in four years, Diebold voting machines and other ballot issues aside, the US has an elected president.

Hi Wil,

I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican, but I voted for Kerry because I wasn't too happy with the last four years. Admittedly, I also thought Kerry would win because of all the anti-Bush talk in the media and on the internet, not to mention among my classmates and professors. So I was surprised by the results. I really did expect Kerry to win, even by just a little.

Then it hit me: I live in California, a Kerry state. Obviously most people I talked to are pro-Kerry. Second, much of the media and the internet are liberal minded. A lot of bloggers are liberal. So yes, I suppose I was in a cocoon of liberalness. In spite of the Michael Moores and Jon Stewarts, I forgot that most of the country is still very conservative.

I don't know what the next four years will bring, but I hope they will be better than these past four years. As for 2008, I think that you democrats are just wishful thinking if you think that Hillary's going to win. I just think about the HUGE splotch of red that covered more than half of the little maps that kept track of each state's electoral college vote, and I just know that NONE of these "red" states will ever, EVER vote a woman into the White House, regardless of her political party. Not in our lifetimes.

Interesting when the phrase "pacifist allies" becomes a term of demonization. Maybe with some allies interested in peace, we wouldn't have launched a war based on shoddy intellignece, willful distortions, and copious rationalizations after the fact. And don't give me aline about appeasement; that dog don't bark here.

But that's not my reason for this post. I agree with Wil except when he says, "Not just because we have gotten four more years of the Bush agenda, but because this election has been an enthusiastic endorsement of that agenda." Ummm...when about half the country votes not because they love the other candidate but because they despise your policies, I wouldn't call it an "enthusiastic endorsement." A huge minority of voters in this country deeply resent Bush and his cronies, feel that his foreign policy is disastrous, and find that his domestic agenda casts a pall over the nation's future. No, there's no "enthusiastic endorsement" here, and he's not my president. But wait until the R's reap what they've sown with looming deficit, social security, and health care crises. Sadly, we'll all have to suffer for this.

Wil,

I'm not entirely sure the vast majority of Americans disagree with you that strongly. In a fair amount of cases I think people are misinformed or misled.

You've probably seen this report, but just in case:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

That's not to say that there aren't people who know exactly what Bush is doing and support it. Many such people do exist. Some people genuinely belive that GWB, Rumsfeld, and Ashcroft are making the USA safer and they don't care what the rest of the world thinks of them. I'm not sure there's any way to convince them that they're wrong.

While I try to be open to other's points of view and have tried to see the good in this administration - they have made it nearly impossible. Their extreme disregard of civil liberties and the differences amoung human beings of various religious beliefs, cultures and economic status, as well as their demonstrated disregard for other nations opinions in a matter which INVOLVES the WORLD and not just our country is just plain sickening. If you voted to sustain this - I add you to my list. You sicken me. This is not just about an unpopular president or a disagreement with policy - it is about mindset of ignorance and hate that goes to the very core of all I despise in human beings.

Here are some rhetorical questions to ponder - if "national safety" was so important an issue, why do you think the states with major cities (which are likely terrorist targets - such as New York, LA, and Chicago) voted for Kerry? Why is it that the states with the least religious and ethnic diversity always vote Republican? Do you think this comes from a position of enlightenment?

If you're not frightened by 4 more years of this administration please take a good hard look in the mirror - because maybe you're part of the problem and why so many foreigners currently hate America. (If isn't just about our foreign policy, you know.)

"No, there's no "enthusiastic endorsement" here, and he's not my president."

Ummm, Peter, if you are a citizen or resident of the US, then YES, he is your president! Like him or not, agree with his policies or not, support his decisions or not, he is the President of the United States of America.

I've said it many times, if the Democrats would present a credible, idea-driven campaign (pointing at the other guy and saying "I'm not him" doesn't qualify as an idea), the American people might embrace that candidate. Blame the liberal leadership for not listening to the voters, don't blame the voters.

Apparently, my country holds a fundamentally different set of values than I thought we did, and that scares the shit out of me

I just feel sick.

I'm afraid the advancements made on social issues in the last decade will be overturned and I'm afraid the separation of church & state is in danger.

OK, this only pertains to those worried about women's rights. Roe v. Wade is here to stay. That topic is too hot and no Supreme Court Justice is going to touch that one. A while ago legislation was passed to ban late-term abortions. Not too long after that two federal courts deemed this law unconstitutional. Executive and Legislative branches are controlled by the GOP. The Supreme Court maybe next, but there are other branches of the judiciary system that are in place in cases such as this. Women, all hope is not lost. The draft is not going to happen. Also, when the GOP is in charge, I don't know if you noticed, but when big corporations get in trouble, they get the book thrown at them. Why? Because the GOP doesn't want to look like they are favoring these companies (even though we all know they do). Taxes, if you think about it, the wealthy may get the bigger tax breaks, but that is because they make more money and do pay a considerable percentage of the nations taxes. When most of the average income earners pay taxes, do you not get most of it if not all back at the end of the tax year? I do, so really I didn't pay taxes, I merely borrowed the money to the federal government and they paid it back (without interest of course, but I still got all of it back, I earned $36,000 in 2003). The Iraqi war, OK is it about terrorism? No. Is it about oil? No. Since Desert Storm no fly zones and economic sanctions were put in place. They have been slowly unraveling. I mean how long can they be kept in force? We had to do something, so we ousted Sadam. Gay marriage: Many states passed amendments to allow marriage to one man and one woman, the people of the states spoke and I am sure it wasn't just the republicans either. Our country is not in dire straits nor is the end of the world coming. Our leader is not a communist and our civil rights are not at stake here. We vote again in four years for the next president and there will be more elections for senators and congressmen, things change. If you don't like the way things are, then stop crying, stop predicting our demise (because it isn't going to happen), and get your asses out there and get involved in the government. Start local and move up.

I think R.E.M.'s sing "End of the World as we Know It" would be an appropriate dedication...

Why is everyone so surprised? What happened was exactly what I thought would happen. Americans were stupid enough to vote him in once, did you think that the entire country grew some brains over the last 4 years?

Is Bush getting elected a bad thing...yes. Was he elected by the people of this country...no. He was elected by about 3 million people. Most of whom actually believe that the war in iraq was not about WMDs and most of whom will benefit from his tax cuts. I registered independent, I voted Kerry. This country needed change and unfortunately we got it. There is no balance to the government as it is now controlled by the GOP at all levels and in most cases at the state level as well. It is indeed a sad day for america as a majority of the country did vote for Kerry and against Bush.

Time to move to mexico. Canada's just too damn cold.

This is truly a sad day for the entire world. It actually makes me sad when I think of how the US could vote for a man with such a twisted view of the world. Had this campaign been run in Europe, Bush (and Kerry as well, I suppose) would have been laughed at. Hard. Really hard.

I do not believe in God. Our (Sweden's) prime minister is a social democrat. I support him, even though he has stated that he would probably have been a priest had he not been into politics. I still support him, because I know that he doesn't let his religious views interfere with his political decisions. That's VERY important here. In Sweden, gay marriages are allowed. Hell, gay couples may ADOPT. When I watch Bush speak about religion as a way of life and a friggin' way to rule a country, I feel sick. Even though I do not live in America. I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't dare to. The American people is being manipulated constantly, and it feels surreal that such a thing could happen.

I really hope the US will get out of this mess. And away from religion and from being so susceptible to manipulation.

I recently turned 16, live in Sweden and consider myself to have a more realistic view of the world as well as being less naive than half of America. Something's wrong.

The world just got a little unsafer. Thanks America. If this is what democracy produces, stuff it. Don't forget, you invaded a sovereign nation against the will of the world (barring my own stupid arse sniffing prime minister).

As terrified as I am by all this I most note a certain morbid curiosity. How f*cked up is George Bush's America. Now that he doesn't have to worry about re-election we may just find out. It might be numbness from blind panic but I'm genuinely curious on a scientific level.

Everyone,

OK, Bush won. Kerry lost. It's for the better. I'm sorry but if Kerry had won, we would be attacked like crazy from terrorists simply because of the weakness that Kerry emits. He has no platform nor a plan. All he could do is attack the President. Honestly, I hope that you all can see that. If not I really feel sorry for you.

Yes, Todcommish, I have agreed all along that the Dems have not fielded a decent candidate since Clinton, and have failed to follow Clinton's example of offering a compelling vision. But, non-management is vastly preferable to the misamanagement and abuse of this regime.

And, being president is more than having authority to order up my library records. It depends on trust, esteem, or at least deference, none of which I can give to that man and his cabal. Again, he's not my president, just a chimpanzee allowed to sit in the control booth of a vast and mighty proaganda machine, powered by far right wingnuts, gay bashers, family connections, and (most important) corporations.

Let's all take a deep breath, stop whining and do something constructive. As I posted in my blog at www.danappleman.com, consider joining the ACLU or Electronic Frontier Foundation.

"If no one is getting drafted, I'd like to know where GWB is going to find the manpower to finish the global policing, and fix Iraq. Maybe he's going to be sweeping the ghettos? Enlisting the imprisoned?

That's an answer I haven't heard."

Um, recruitment. Reagan had a significantly larger all-volunteer military, drawn from a smaller population.

We'd have a significantly larger, all-volunteer military right now if only our fearless leaders had raised the enlistment caps after 9/11. They may still do that, if it seems needful.

As for the draft - since 1865, not a single Democratic President has ever been willing to go to war without a draft. Not once. (Unless you count Clinton-style airstrike campaigns...)

Republican Presidents, on the other hand, have never introduced a draft during that same time period, and one Republican President, the otherwise disappointing Richard Nixon, actually ended the draft he inherited.

So I see little basis for assuming that Bush will bring back the draft. We've got spare manpower and we've got a nation full of people that would volunteer if more spots opened up and an ad campaign were run pointing out a need for more troops.

Hi, Wil!

Thank you for sharing your feelings on the election. Like most of your friends, I'm down, too. I've worked as a volunteer for the Democratic Party for years now. I've backed winners and I've backed losers (the latter much more often than the former, sad to say.)

Sometimes when your side loses, it hurts so bad, you wonder if you'll ever want to get involved again. But you always do. Well, I always do, anyway.

Because there may be setbacks, but in politics, it's never over. No vote is ever final. There's always another election. And there's plenty to do between elections. Even when the other side is in control, our side sometimes has its day.

Remember when Ronald Reagan vetoed sanctions against South Africa? (Well, maybe you don't. I'm older than you.) We got them anyway.

Voting rights are better protected today than they were four years ago, to take one example. A 9/11 commission was formed. Investigations of various unsavory official acts are underway. We're seeing some improvements in schools.

Barak Obama got elected anyway.

The truth about Iraq will come out anyway.

These things are happening more in spite of Bush than because of him, but they are happening.

The battle isn't over yet. It's barely begun.

You can be part of it, Wil. All you have to do is keep on with what you're already doing. Speak the truth bravely, rationally, eloquently. Like you've been doing all along.

Hang in there, brother.

Don't lose site of the fact that we all have each other. Just under half of the ballots cast were from our side, from people who believe what we believe in. The right may have won, but they won't be able to change who we are.

OUR country deserves better than this.Remember 50% is not accepting a MANDATE.If winners are too arrogant they will be in for a backlash like never before seen!

When the encumbent got reelected in Australia, the only thing that stopped me emigrating was the belief that America would not re elect smirk.

I woke up this morning and wondered where in the world I would be able to hide

I felt the same way after John Howard won the Australian election. A few days later (after I'd calmed down), I took Wil's example and listed ten things I enjoyed about life. (I love the beautiful sunsets, I love the cricket, I love walking ten minutes to the docks and eating good seafood...). It was very easy to compile that list, and I felt a lot better afterwards. My father also gave me some excellent advice - "The people who voted for Bush/Howard had their reasons. They'll have to live with the consequences of their decision, good and bad. As for us, we made our choice".

Wil,
First let me say I'm glad you state your opinion each and (nearly) everyday. I come here because you have a strong opinion, work ethics, and strong family values. Having said that, I must say that I voted for Bush for another term. I am not a hardcore republican (I voted for the democratic nominee for governor as well as congressmen for the state of Missouri). But again I do appreciate your site and of course the books you have written! OH ALSO GTA:SA RAWKS! Great job on the voicework on GTA:SA!

make that the Democrat nominee for governor of Missouri (McCaskill) and the Democrat nominee for congressman (for my area) Emmanuel Cleaver. I'm sad to see that a republican was elected for the Governor position, but I have a Democrat Congressman.

Maybe it's not them. Maybe it's you.

Why do terrorists want to attack America in the first place?

I think the reason the rest of the world is concerned is because the US has invaded another country simply because "they may have possibly been a threat at some indefinite point in the future" - well that kind of justification could be held true of any country on the planet.

Though the US may be wary of trying that one on China - the only time I recall Bush backing down.

Have fun with PATRIOT II!

I'm sadder to see that fearmongering and fundamentalist dogma caused so many people to overwhelmingly vote for bans to gay marriage.

Wil,
I too hoped to wake up and find out that the nightmare was over. But I've spent the day in mourning. The ignorance in this country astounds me I've been sick to my stomach just thinking about the 3 million vote margain. My dad's only comment on his blog was "American Freedom: Born July 4th 1776 Killed November 3rd 2004"

I have a poem by my friend that sums up my feelings quite well.
Waking up from the American Dream (Shortened)

Norman Rockwell’s paintings are fading in the corner, Hank Williams’s records are beginning to skip and pop. A yellow flag is called on Pop Warner and Atticus Finch just missed his shot
Orson Welles’s masterpiece is getting bad reviews, as Charlton Heston locks and loads. The plight of the workingman fills the news, and every car has its own Tom Joad.
Hugh Hefner has a hole in his old silk pajamas; John Gotti is dying of cancer behind bars. Now Madonna follows the Dali Lama, Bonnie and Clyde are still in the car.
Robert Zimmerman’s writings lose their grip on the world; Woody Guthrie’s message has long been quiet. Frank Sinatra has stopped serenading the girls; Mark Twain’s pen is now silent.
Jim Henson’s hands are starting to get tired as Howard Stern pats him on the back. John Belushi’s still high and wired as Casey Jones plows down his track.
Now the world awakens from the American Dream. Most of my countrymen are still dormant. They still think of the promised glitter and gleam and they snore through the torment.
When people occasionally open their eyes to the world around them they are shocked by all of the violence and turmoil. They don’t know that this is what it means to be American as the melting pot begins to churn and boil.
The American dream is in a Brooklyn hospital bed alone in his final hours, he is dying slowly. Thoughts of fame and achievement long out of his head. His personal choice stripped him of all his glory
Now who is left to proudly wave our flag? Britney, Christina? Televised prostitutes of a digital age or maybe an angry rich man in a red Yankee cap the lesser of evils will have to turn history’s page.
So now I will doze back to the American dream and walk down E street and the yellow brick road to a time when people actually say what they mean and do not know the course they will go.
I will cross the Delaware with George Washington. I will play guitar with SRV I will relive all the Olympics America won and the American dream will once again be real to me.

Well look on the bright side. At least we won't have to hear about that stupid Redskins/election jinx anymore.

Or maybe I shouldn't presume that I'm smart enough to pass blanket judgment on others who are considering emigration. Not even when I'm safely and blithely engaging in the often shortsighted, puke-like, vitriolic, and/or BS-axiomatic act of (more-or-less) anonymously posting to a blog's comment page.

As a gay man, is Canada any more hospitable when it comes to gay rights than this country is? I'll admit I do not know. Also, I made my statement as a reflection of my opinion, and while you might take issue with me posting my opinion on this forum what else should I have done to respond with my thoughts? Called you up? I identified myself by name and did put my email address in, though it doesn't show. Come on now. These comments are full of people basically saying those that voted for Bush are simps and I don't see you chasing after them for their 'blanket judgements'. Sheesh.

Rich

For all the people who are raving about how Bush got a bad rap, and how the Iraq war will be seen as "a bold and important move in humanity" (poorly quoted, sorry). I think they should go through this list of factual reports from the past 4 years while Bush was in power, then please, tell me that he deserves another 4 years.

100 Facts and 1 Opinion

Oh, and then read the blog of a US reporter in IRAQ for the past 3 years and tell me that all the problems are being fixed.
http://www.back-to-iraq.com

Oh, and no-one has still given me a feasible solution for the manpower issue in Iraq. So either we're supposed to believe that just because GWB didn't say they're be a draft that there won't be one, or the US will have to pull almost all it's forces stationed around the world and fly them to Iraq. Yeah, those are feasible.

"Apparently, my country holds a fundamentally different set of values than I thought we did"

This is exactly what I have been trying to come to grips with all day. Half the country has a perspective on this man and this country and this election that I simply do not understand. Last night (actually early this morning, when things were already looking grim and the popular vote was determined), I read your post-vote entry and unexpectedly started to cry. I suddenly had to accept that I was alienated from my own country. What I thought we stood for no longer seems to apply.

It's like culture shock -- but for my own culture.

Amen, Wil.

Yes we are stuck with little George jr. for another 4 years, but at least its only for another 4 years, and no more then that. We all know Dick Chenny's heart wont survive another 4 years of pulling George jr's puppet strings, then running for office himself.

So don't give up hope Wil. We will still have Kerry/Clinton (Hillary) in "2008".

God Bless America , your going to need it

Sympathy to my fellow liberals. Australia just got socked with another three to four years of John Howard (known as Bonzai - little Bush, get it) and his government's poorly considered perpetual adherence to the American way. I too was in mourning for several days. I reflect that if the Conservatives really begin to make inroads in undoing all the changes of the last 50 years (so life could go back where it was when they were kids, as if) the left will get back on to the streets and get a new charge of energy and righteousness. Then maybe the democrat candidate would be seen as 'standing for something' - same thing happened to our Labor party. Chin up, and keep posting!

Don't mourn, organize!

We must remain strong. And we must do our patriotic duty, we must criticize this administration when they step out of line (I'm sure we'll have plenty of work there) We must stand up for what is right. We must point out the truth if this administration lies. And mostly we must wait for our chance to do a better job in 08 (Hilary/Obama sounds good to me.)

Will, Here in Ireland where I live I was hopeful, as so many of us were, that we would see change for the better. I am proud to have cast my absentee vote in Oregon (not so proud about how my fellow Oregonians voted on local issues though). In the days and weeks and months that come, we will all seek sense and solace and -- if nothing else -- words to help frame our shock. Eric Altermann has some, already, in his MSNBC article http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/

We will all have to fight the good fight. The words freedom and liberty do have meaning, regardless of how some people misuse them.

Wil,

I love your books, and I've always enjoyed your acting. I consider you very talented at the things you do.

However, you've bought into the whole left-wing moonbat Hollywood liberal tripe, and I am honestly sorry to see that.

George W Bush is a man of character, a man who follows through. He made promises, and he kept them. He took a stand, and he never wavered. I am sorry that you (and many of these others posting here) cannot see that.

I am not a rabid right-wing conservative. I am OK with Gay Marriage. I think the Drug War is bad. I do not agree with the Republicans on a lot of things - I am more of a libertarian than anything.

Having said all that, I supported Bush in this election, voted for him, and convinced several friends to vote for him. He was the best choice.

Wake up, Wil. Look at things from another perspective for a change.

I challenge you (and the other whiny liberals posting here) to have the courage to go read the essays at this site. ("Silent America" - especially Trinity and Magic)

Bill Whittle

It just feels like Bizzaroworld. First the Red Socks win the world series. (I'm a Yankees fan, so shoot me.) And then we as a country actually elect Bush. I came here to seek like minded individuals, all reeling in disbelief. I am really quite surprised at some of the vitriol expressed in the comments above. Any of us who read this blog regularly know where Wil stands. I honestly thought that more of the country felt the same way. I guess that is what bothers me the most today. Knowing that my feelings about the direction the country should be taking are not shared by the majority. That Bush could actually win the popular vote. I'm gobsmacked. (Or should that be GOP-smacked?)

By the way, we are commiserating, not whining...

http://dementedforever.hopto.org/vote.html

Wow

OMG!! my thoughts exactly!! this morning i told a friend "i hope 'they' (i.e. bush voters) are happy with their decisions. because, afterall, beheading innocent civilians with dull army knives is OKAY, as long as we aren't doing abortions! killing 100,000 innocent iraqis is OKAY, as long as gays and lesbians can't be with their partners during their final hours! people out of work for over a year only to find a minimum wage job to support their families and shoving them under the poverty line is OKAY as long as we can post the 10 commandments in school!! letting osama bin laden travel around saudi arabia and pakistan even though he is a mass murderer and the reason any of this started in the first place is OKAY as long as bush and cheney get their kickbacks from the saudi royals for oil and for gouging the u.s. military to rebuild iraq, respectively."

do i feel better now? fuck no.....i won't feel better for at LEAST another 4 years.....

I find it amusing that a large number of comments to the effect of "poor America, saddled with Bush again" come from citizens of other countries. I happen to live in the "fly-over" area of the US. You know, the huge block of states in the middle that elected Bush again? (CNN has a nice map illustrating this point) The large urban areas of this country, and the ultra-uber-hyper liberals in the rest of the world, need to realize that how the media portrays Americans is generally a very narrow swath of population on the east and west coast. While I do not agree with every issue the Republican party puts forth (for one, I could care less about gay marriage either way.), I don't hold much truck with a campaign whose entire platform was, "Vote for me because I'm not the other guy!" Had Kerry put forth an actual plan and agenda, I would have considered it, as I consider all data before making a decision. However, the "other side" would apparently rather spew hate and bile than offer an alternative. Kerry commented during his concession speech today about how divided Americans are. Why does he think Americans have become so divided? It didn't happen on it's own. And, no, I'm not giving Republicans a free ride on this issue. Political campaigns have become all about the sound bite and the slick commercial. Unfortunately, I don't think this will change any time soon. As this election season has shown, cutting off political contributions on one side just forces the deep pockets to find other routes. So, in summary, I think that we have a long way to go, and that both sides will need to give a little. But, I think the first thing we all need to agree on, is that we stop turning to every other country to validate our existance. If they don't like it, we should just take our trucks and go home. :) Do I like war? No. One of my best friends was in Iraq for over a year. But, do I think it was the right thing to do? HELL YES! Regardless of the status of WMD, I believe with my whole heart that we needed to go into Iraq. More good has come from it than bad. In case anyone has forgotten, I would rather not have another couple thousand civilians killed in our country by terrorists. A local radio station had two gentlemen on from Iraq (a Baghdad city councilman and a doctor) a few weeks ago. These two men were so thankful that we liberated their country. They made it very clear that the "turmoil" and "quagmire" the media constantly reports is not the case at all. Is there still violence? Yes. But, most of the violence is being caused by foreigners being paid for their services. You know, mercenaries. NOT Iraqi "freedom-fighters". I would suggest to anyone reading this to attempt to seek out as much information on world events from as many different sources as you can. Surprise, surprise, but humans can tend to be somewhat biased toward their own viewpoints. Take in as much info as you can, average it out, and you are probably looking at a closer representation of reality. OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. BTW Wil, keep up the good work!

your all welcome to move to canada ;)

Wil,

I hereby offer you an entire truckload of Kleenex. You poor self-centered ex-wannabe-actor with typical leftist hollywood views. The real america has spoken. The real America consists of people that have real jobs, the live a real life day after day. The people of this country work for a living. John Kerry was rejected for many reasons. Not the least of which is his condescending, crass attitude toward the people of this country. He considers us peasants. We have heard many times what his disgusting wife things of the great people of this land. John Kerry was outright rejected. Tom Daschle was outright rejected. Micheal "Huge disgustingly-fat slob-ass" Moore was outright rejected. So was that idiot Al Franken, and Robert Redford, and The Ditsy Chips (especially the fat one) and the walking hate-crime known as Eminem. And last, but not leaast, Wil Wheaton, you and your political views were rejected. You are free to leave this country, but don't let the door hit you in the ass. Maybe someday you will emotionally mature beyond the pre-pubescent stage you seem to be stuck in, the one we all used to watch on that syndicated space-ship show. Someday you might get a clue and join with the rest of Americans in realizing just what a great country this is, and no single person can ruin that. Sulk and sit in self pity and hell all you want. France is the place for weenies like you.

Signed,

A now ex-Wil Wheaton dot net reader.

I too was taken aback by the results but perhaps this will clarify some of it. This is a chart with the average iq of each state compared with the way the electoral vote went... interesting but not surprising.

http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~kenyon3/2004.htm

Yes, I cannot believe he got a second term either! For me it wasn't about being Republican or being a democrat. It was simply about NOT re-electing a leader that is not good for this country. Oh well, the damage is done and it's the biggest disappointment ever! But the ones that voted for Bush better not complain the next four years if they don't like what he's doing!

The challenge now is to get on with things and not to let the results further polarize us against one another.

Speak out. Support your causes. Be active politically, regardless of whether you are Democrat, Republican or "other". Keep on top of the facts and hold those responsible accountable.

Now is not the time to fight with each other.

Sheesh. Talk about a bunch of drama queens.

Saddam's Iraq was not some little country that offered no threat to anyone and was just minding its own business. Saddam USED CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS in wars against Iran and his own Kurdish citizens. He had a nuclear weapons program. He invaded Kuwait for no reason other than greed. The guy is a philosophical heir of Hitler, not figuratively, but literally. The Nazis established Nazi parties in the Middle East and the Baathists are one of those parties. The guy flaunted the sanctions, no-fly zones, and UN resolutions for TEN YEARS.

There is clear evidence that Al Qaeda had a presence in Iraq. Al Qaeda and Saddam had discussed working together. We don't have proof that they had been working together, but there is some evidence that Saddam did aid Al Qaeda (in general training, not in 9/11). It was only a matter of time before the two decided to work together.

We did not invade some random country that may or may not have posed some hypothetical threat to anyone at some random time in the future. We invaded a country that was a clear threat to its neighbors, its own people, and possibly to us.

The vast majority of Iraqis are happy about it. Former Baathists are not, of course, as they are no longer in power and are in danger of being turned on by those they tormented. Terrorists are unhappy because we took out a supporter of terrorists (he paid $25k to families of suicide bombers in Israel).

So who wants Saddam to be put back in power? We could do it... That would probably make the French and Germans and Russians happy. I bet they'd really get behind us, then.

Bolie IV

Wil,

I am a long-time reader of your blog. I love the poker stories. I love hearing about your family. I love the stories about car shows. I do, however, cringe when you discuss our President. I voted for him four years ago while I was serving in Iceland. I voted for him yesterday in Oklahoma. I love ya, but you're wrong.
Your fan,
Ben

BUSH *CHEATED* AGAIN, YOU FUCKING MORONS.

Let me make it simple for the Bush supporters here, because it's clear that they like short sound bytes.

-- If you voted for Bush, you are a bigot, because you are voting to treat gay people as unequal.

-- If you voted for Bush, you are fiscally not conservative because you voted to perpetuate the staggering debt (which the White House, within a day of the election, announced would go so high that they required Congressional approval to raise the debt limit).

-- If you voted for Bush, you are against states' rights, because you believe that it is important to amend the U.S. Constitution to prohibit gay marriage.

-- If you voted for Bush, you are against human cooperation, because you voted for a candidate who has no pretense of international legitimacy.

All of you who say "Boo hoo you're just whiny liberals" better be on notice, 'cause it's fightin' time. You may think that it's macho to be a Republican gay-bashing beer-swilling illiterate redneck idiot, and you might even brag about being able to shoot "limp-wristed libruls" 'cause you have a gun rack and an assault rifle, but it wasn't high school football jocks who came up with the atomic bomb, the airplane, and the personal computer.

The real shame is that occasionally there's a worthwhile conservative out there who believes in fiscal and personal responsibility, but I'm not seeing a lot of them posting here.

If you think that "whiny libruls" are wrong on Iraq, on social security, on any number of issues, then I challenge you and your God-fearing President to call upon the powers granted them by God -- because he's chosen by God, right? he said so -- to bring back the dead who served and died in Iraq and Afghanistan. I challenge you to do what Jesus would do when confronted with the poor, and help find ways to raise them up out of the trap of poverty. I challenge you to convince your God to intercede on behalf of humanity to reverse the terrible ecological damage done over the last decade, to overcome the sprawling problems of inequitable supply and demand, to sit down with the prostitutes, the foreigners, and the other religions and accept them as equal people, which is what the answer would be to the oft-asked question "What Would Jesus Do?".

Wow. A lot of tough talk out there, but when someone calls 'em on it, they get all huffy and sign "an ex-WWDN reader" or accuse Wil of having low intelligence or pandering to low standards.

Why don't you hold yourself and your leader to a HIGHER standard instead of finding a convenient scapegoat for the many modern debacles we face?

America isn't just for rich, white, Christian men. If you think it's cool to go shoot "ragheads" in Iraq because they're all terrorists, then you hate America, because America is built on the idea that everyone can contribute without prejudice. If you think it's fun to sneer at liberal people and tell them to shut the hell up, then you're a traitor and not a patriot, because in the U.S. we've enshrined freedom of speech and the right to dissent as part of our discourse.

It's time to get on the train, folks, it's leaving soon for a better U.S. that has solutions to problems without using bombs, that doesn't torture people or throw them in cages for looking funny or speaking out, that takes care of its citizenry and manages its resources for the future.

If anyone from another country is reading these words, please tell your fellow citizens to remember that although half our country voted these morons back into office, half didn't. Ask them to keep the faith that America might come back, and to remember we're not all a bunch of idiots.

There are way too many people in this world that vote with their religious/personal/"moral" beliefs and not the facts and they should be ashamed of themselves. This country wasn't founded on religious bigotry and it should not be led by it. This administration is doing exactly that. We should all be afraid, afraid that religious zealots will be running our country, afraid we will lose fundamental rights afforded us by the constitution. Simple minds think alike and that is the only reason Bush was re-elected. People were voting "their conscience" which basically means with their religious beliefs, not with the facts. It's a shame, but now we have to suffer because of their ignorance. Or is that arrogance?

Hey, Wil --

Remember -- this was *not* an enthusiastic endorsement of President Bush. He barely won. There are lots of people who feel like we do, almost half of the voters.

But, you're right. When peace, inclusion, and joy are on the line -- it's always a beginning.

In response to the overwhelming passage of our state's Prop 2 (ban gay marriage in state const), a friend asked "Who are my neighbors?" I realized, that despite discussions with people opposed to so many of what I consider basic human rights and values, I still really don't understand their position or how they could reach these conclusions in light of the suffering it causes other people.

Guess we'll all just have to take a step away from our opposite walls and toward the center of the room to start talking again.

Rainey

Leave this country? No, this is MY country. I'm going to fight, even harder than before, to take it back from the bigoted right-wing, kool-aid drinking, walmart-shopping NASCAR fans. You may be too stupid and inbred to actually realize and understand what the administration is doing to this nation, I am not.

You thought we were vocal before?

Just wait.

-- If you voted for Bush, you are a bigot, because you are voting to treat gay people as unequal.

Man, I hope you're kidding. I voted for Kerry happily and I don't even believe that tripe.

Rich

LOL! I am as amazed as you are....only in reverse. I can't understand how Kerry got so many votes. I guess you could say Kerry and and his agenda, whichever one it was, scared me to death. Having to get France's approval to make a decision and with his divide and conquer menatilty our country would have suffered. When you set out to pit the rich against the poor, black against white, old against young all in order to gain voting blocks that is dangerous. It further divides our country and causes a deep hatered simply because of our differences. We have seen this getting worse with each election. We should be applauding our differences and using them to get stronger but alas we get things like "the next four years will be a disaster" Such a closed mind! I am sure you think I am a Bush hack and while I voted for him I tend to like free thinkers and those that can take a stand and not cow to a party agenda on all issues....I tend to lean towards the libertarian party...the less government in my life the better.

I guess my suggestion to you is to study the issues and seek to understand instead of assuming 57M people are wrong. Los Angeles is a different world....maybe you need to get out of there and meet people that think differntly than you...these differences should make us stronger no produce hate filled rhetoric that you seem to be supporting. Thanks for letting me vent!

--Quote--
You all are a bunch of God damn whiners...if any one needs a ride to Canada, I'll personally drive you to the Ambassador Bridge FOR FREE.
--Quote--

That's sort've funny. You know, I kept reading all of these declarations and suggestions that the state of Texas leave the Union if John Kerry won. So, out of curiosity, would that retain the "whiner" complaint, or would it be macho, because it's cool if you're a Bush supporter?

And, out of curiosity, what's with all of the pretend Republicans out there? How many people who support the Republicans, or call themselves a Republican, even have a clue what you're SUPPOSED to stand for? Republicans are supposed to be about smaller government, less spending, less involvement. Bush created a new Federal agency, drove up the debt (don't talk to me about 9/11 - I'm FROM new york, and we're still waiting on all of that money we were promised), and he's attempting to build not one but TWO nations. So, essentially, those of you who claim to support Bush because you are Republicans... banning gay marriage and shooting gun doesn't make you a republican... and supporting Bush doesn't make you a Republican. He's no different than what you claim to be against (except for that Christian Extremism) - changing the constitution to fit his bible, indeed.

And while I'm on a roll (that email address again - gbbloom@hotmail.com ) I have to ask who in the hell do we think we are to tell another nation how they should run their government? We're the enlightened ones because of our form of government? Democracy is the only way to go? (civics lesson - we don't have a Democracy, it's a Republic) It works for us... but other forms might work for others... ours is not the only way. Why, that'd be like suggesting that believers of other religions are in the wrong unless they're switching to Christianity... and threatening them with things like eternal damnation; and I'm sure no American would be so callous!

Yes... I know... here comes the hate mail. Apologies to those of you who were offended that I didn't intend to offende.

Keep your voice, Wil. Don't let the bastards keep you down. We're going to need you the next four, eight, sixteen years. You're a voice thinking people have for the most part come to respect.... don't be afraid to play on that in the cause of freedom.

I cried for hours..I still hope this is a nightmare that we will wake up from.

Apparently TOO much of America is STILL asleep.

I feel like someone/something died..

I feel numb..

Thanks Wil for being here.

Amen. And thank you for all the times where you provide the words or provide the words of others for situations that leave me utterly speechless.

I kept waking up early this morning thinking I'd gotten up and seen on the tv that bush had won. Then I'd wake up completely and realize that it couldn't be true since it was just a dream and I didn't actually get out of bed. I did this about three times. Then I got up for real. (And admittedly went to campus and work before finding out the news this afternoon.) Yikes. What a nightmare come true.

Thanks for your words, Wil. Seriously.

sofuz.

Draft bill was proposed by democrats. See Thomas.loc.gov, paste in HR 163 as the bill number, and note what party the proponents belong to.

The bill is dead.

You cannot be drafted as a non-citizen.

If you have questions about your rights as a resident alien, I believe that the INS can answer your question.

Sorry to all for making this an answer board, but I'd not want a guest in our country to believe that they can simply be pressed into military service

I agree totally with you. I am scared so shitless I'm currently in tears. So many of the things that could potentially be lost as far as personal freedoms directly affect me as a female openly bisexual polyamorous pagan. I live in Georgia. I voted but Bush still won. The marriage amendment passed with 71% in favor. The damage could last for years. When I have the family I want, will I be safe from having my children taken away, losing my job, or losing my home just because my religion, sexuality, and/or lifestyle don't match the norm? I'm not so sure anymore.

OK, guys. I'm a conservative, but I'm not a Republican conservative hack. I'm not gonna talk about Swift Boats, I'm not gonna talk about the legitimate distribution of Purple Hearts. I'm just gonna explain things as I see them.

The biggest problem is that liberals have been combining geniune concerns with (what appears to be) outlandish statements. Example:

GC (Geniune Concern): I'm concerned that Bush forgot about Osama.

OS (Outlandish Statement): I think Karl Rove orchestrated the Osama tape. [Cronkite]

GC: I'm concerned about who Bush might nominate for the Supreme Court.

OS: If you think rape should be legal... [Diaz]

GC: I don't understand how our intelligence can be so screwed up that we didn't know there were no WMD.

OS: Bush LIED about the war! He KNEW there were no WMDs! [A lot of people, including Moore]

Now, for each of those GCs, I'd say, "Hey, you've got a really good point. Let me think about that." Every time I hear an OS, I wrap my head in duct tape so it won't explode.

Or this one: "So if George W. Bush wins, I will sit down, and I will cry. I will cry for my children, who will most certainly face a military draft..." [Wil]

Wil, only 4 people are in favor of a draft: the two Democrats who introduced the draft bill, and the two Democrats who voted for it. That's right, the authors did not even vote for their own bill. (And, oh, by the way, if I understand the bill correctly, that bill also required 2 years of Government service for EVERY child who graduates high school.)

Well, I apologize for the long post. I'm sorry you guys feel so bad. I understand Robert Redford is moving to Ireland. I hear that's a nice place. Hope he enjoys the scenery.

I voted for Bush, and I'm proud!

It's easy to recriminate and incriminate the man in the highest office in the land from this extreme distance. It's been almost four years of President George W. Bush, and the country is still here. In another four years, it will still be here.

Nobody has tried to take away my right to do any good thing. Good thing. I don't have the right to conspire to hurt this country or it's citizens. I don't have the right to steal anybody's intellectual property. It is the government's job to stop me from doing these things. What do I have to fear if I am not doing anything wrong? Nothing. I can still voice my opinions. I'm not registered as Republican and neither Arnold or GW have dragged me out of my house or threaten my family.

This is a great country. It's great that so many people voted. And it's great that George W. Bush has been re-elected. If you don't agree, that's great, too. You can't say that you didn't have a chance or a voice, not this time.

Guess what Wil? You live in another world alright. People are sick to death of hearing what know-nothing celebrities have to say about politics. You're out of touch. Try working for a living and maybe you'll understand. I'm not even kidding when I say it was the Sean Penns, Michael Moores, and yes, even the Wil Wheatons that lost the election for Kerry. Think about that. Thanks for listening.

Oh, one more question that I don't understand...

Osama threatened any red state with a terror attack. How is that a victory for terrorists?

I would think that if we backed down it would be a victory for them.

WWPD? What Would Picard Do?

The biggest lesson that I see coming from this is that the Democratic Party has got to do some major work on itself. If the party had put forth a better candidate than Kerry, I truly believe we would have elected a new president. I've been a Democrat for years, and an activist on top of that, and I can't stand Kerry. I only voted for him because I disliked Bush more - and am terrified of Dick Cheney.

As we look for "blame," we have to look to our own party for giving us the wrong candidate. And hope and pray that they remember this in 2008.

Yes, we the Evil GOP only want the worst for America. We want to destroy all the things you hold sacred. Our conservation, moral, God Fearing Values, warm hearts, kindness and sharing are so evil it would be terrible for you to live amongst us.

Take a look at this map from USToday and you will notice that we have taken over the vast majority of the country.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

We of the vast moral majority have just been waiting over 500 years to take over. We have been slowly taking over waiting for the day that we hold the Executive and Legislative Branches. Now we can take over the Judiciary.

Soon the day will come that we will all rise up after 500 years to cast every Blue Liberal into the sea. We will soon begin to gather you all up into camps to properly do away with you.

Now if you believe any of this that I have just typed out. Well, I would say their is nothing that I can do for you.

We Evil GOPer's have been around since the first white man stepped foot on this Great Land and we have been great contributers to our little experiment.

We are the greatest country in the world because of the greatest people in the world on both sides of the isle.

So please spare me all of this whinning because you all think the world is coming to the end. Stop listening to the MSM and read respected alternative media/blogs. Their have been far worse Presidents than Bush (someone say Carter).

Just exactly what did your Jesus Clinton do to keep 9/11 from happening.

Read your History, we'll been fine.

Wil you were right in your initial assessment to keep your feelings close to the chest. Why?

1) As you already pointed out its divisive

2) It doesn’t make sense from a business point of view

To put it into layman terms, when you sell a book you want it to be as popular as possible.

I'm sure you don’t want your book sold in just the blue states (there were only a few).

If you attack someone’s political position it translates as if you are attacking them.

You have more than your right to hold a position or to share backroom jokes among friends.

To broadcast it on the Internet sends a message that you don’t care for the patronage of people whose views oppose your own.

Mr. Wheaton - Don't let people discourage you. You're entitled to your viewpoint, and you don't force it on anyone. This is your journal/blog, so you put whatever you want down on it.

And for the record, I like Kerry. He's a good guy and a good leader.

fuck bush

Simply put - this is going to be the worst 4 years of my life - after high school.

I wish my teachers had warned me in school that at 24 my rights would be revoked and that my country would elect a man who made efforts to take away the rights of anyone that didnt serve to pad his wallet.

I mourn not only the loss of my personal rights, but the loss of other groups - homosexuals, ethnic groups, and other women... This is going to be really bad...

I only wish I could wake up tomorrow and this would have been a bad dream.

--Chrissy Daniels

Thanks for posting your sincere thoughts--not as a "know-nothing" celebrity, as someone put it, but as an American. For every reader that responded with varying degrees of disdain, there are many more who gained a great deal of respect for you, I'm sure.

You couldn't be more right, Wil. I'm one of those people who always hated your character on STNG, (he was just such a weenie), but reading your blog from time to time, I've come to respect you as a person immensely. We are both in the same boat as young fathers with families to provide for. (Of course, I don't dare wish my financial situation on anybody)

Bush has presided over the most mindbogglinngly corrupt and inept administration ever, but America keeps changing the channel to "Survivor". We're well on our way to becoming a third world country with no middle or working class, just super-rich and their courtesans, and the destitute poor. But people in the red areas are still easily swayed by phony red herring "issues" like gay marriage and partial-birth abortion.

I live in the liberal bubble of the SF Bay area, so I'm comforted to know that most people nearby are good-hearted, conscientious people, but I feel so alienated by the people of the red areas., including some of my family who live in Texas. I feel I don't even want to see them again if they voted for the GOP.

How could they willfully flush 230 years of Jeffersonian democracy down the toilet? For what? For some police-state illusion of "security"? For a strutting cardboard cutout macho-man figurehead WHO IS EVERY BIT AS EFFETE AND NEW ENGLAND AND ELITE AS KERRY?

I'm just distraught. I returned to the US after many years living in Japan in Sept. 2000, when things were still hunky-dory. I never for a moment imagined that my country would fall apart around me like this. If I had, I would have never come back.

This is not America.

THANK YOU for posting this. All day I've been looking for the (apparently too few) others out there who are as baffled, outraged, and distressed by this as I am. We all need each other all the more now.

No matter how you voted on November 2nd, remember that a lot of good people voted for Bush yesterday; a lot of good people voted for Kerry yesterday, and; a smaller number of good people voted for third-party candidates. What do they have in common? They're all good people.

Different people voted in different ways for different reasons, and blaming the election of certain candidates, or the passage of certain issues, on ignorance and intolerance shows a dangerous precedent. No one knows the full ramifications of any of the actions that we take; no one can know. But we must work with the realities of the present in order to move forward and make good things happen.

Remember: no matter how we voted, we are all Americans, and we must all unite as one nation, indivisible. United, we stand; divided, we fall. Let us build together, so that we strengthen all.

OK...to all those Bush supporters out there...

Look, the point is that we in this nation have certain rights outlined in the Constitution. Those right SHOULD NOT be dictated by religion, as one of them is the freedom to practice any religion we choose. A ban on gay marriage is a RELIGIOUS based belief...not a political one. I fear for this nation because we have a president that is not able to separate the two, as the CONSTITUTION clearly states should be done.

And I voted for Bush in 2000.

Wil, thank you for having the bravery to speak out, and say what you needed to say. I only wish that more people were like yourself.

I was all excited because I live in Japan and had the day off to watch the election.

Now only the tortured vocals of Simon LeBon ring in my ears:

"I'm on a ride and I wanna get off"

Only a true "Child of the Eighties"(tm) could connect Duran Duran and the electoral debacle that was the 2004 US Presidential Election.

Eight years ago when Bill Clinton won re-election, I thought it would be the end of the USA. Somehow, we got through it. America survived and if you are a Bush hater rather than a Kerry lover, take this lesson from history; America will survive.

If I am successful, it is because of my hard work and not for who ocuppies the White House.

I will do great, no matter who is President.

Just a thought.

I've been walking around for most of the day swallowing back my sadness and anger, trying to convince myself that it will all be okay.

But alas…it’s just not working.

I don’t think that it will be okay, so it was nice to get home tonight and know that I could tuck myself in here (even if just for a few minutes) to a forum with some people that can ‘get down’ with my utter dismay.

Where do we go now? What is to become of those who feel that our America has isolated us? Where can we turn for protection of our civil liberties? Selfishly, yes, I’m wondering who will represent me and work for my best interests? I see no one…

These are the questions mulling about in my head tonight (distracting me from homework for my finance class…ack). I don’t know that there are answers to these questions, but they gnaw at my brain none the less.

In the mean time, while we all do what we can to come to terms with the next four years, I just want to say, “Thanks Wil.” Thanks for bringing all of us together and putting your own words to our feelings. Sometimes…and especially on days like this, it’s just nice to know you’re there.

You are not alone. And thanks to you I know that I'm not alone either. There has been a great mistake made by the uninformed and the blind faith followers. I don't know what the next four years will bring But I do fear for our country. I'm so afraid that more of our freedoms will be stolen in the name of saftey and morality. In two years we will get the chance to speak up again. Hopefully he won't have lost too many souls in Iraq. Keep the faith.

"But that is the wonderful thing about our country, we can disagree and not be in fear of persecution."

Try telling that to gays and non-Christian's... The biggest problem the US has now is that it's no different from a fundamentalist Islamic country as the religious crackpots rule the US too.

Why I didn't vote for Bush.

This time last year my income level was around $42,000. This for a 25 year old with no college education and a prospective future career. I'm now making half of that due to cut-backs that my employer made in order to receive tax-cuts which were made possible by Bush. Bush had an opportunity to prove that he really cared about this country after 9/11 and he failed.

Why I voted for the definition of marriage ammendment in my state.

I was raised in a Christian home. I don't have anything against anyone who is gay, bi-sexual, or whatever. I do have an issue with anyone who feels that it is their right to stuff it down my throat. My background beliefs are such that I view marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman, period. I also believe that marriage should only be performed by the church as it is a relationship entered into by and before God. I do believe that gay couples should be allowed to enter into a Civil Union. I see nothing wrong with allowing gay couples to have the same benefits as a married coupled.

Why I am registered as an Independent.

I don't fully believe in either party. The Democrats tend to provide too much money to the poor without any help and the Republicans don't provide any money nor any help. Republicans tend to be more affluent and less concerned with reality.

Why Kerry and Bush think the country is divided.

Take a look at the results. Bush didn't win by a majority, he won by a minority. Something around 3.5 to 4 million votes in a 115 million vote race. The country is divided. Half of us think that Bush has and continues to do a bad job and the others think that he has done just fine.

Why I'm uncertain of the future.

Bush was not elected in 2000. We have faced 4 years of continued economic bleakness, environmental and international disconcern, and more from an administration who would prefer to cover-up and run-over the truth whereever possible. And now there is no longer a balance in the government branches. And in many cases the state governments are also controlled by the GOP. This scares me to know that there is no balance to prevent rampant GOP idealogies.

Why I read WWDN.

Wil is more than just some Star Trek has-been. He is in fact an Actor, Author, Comedian?, Father, Husband, and American. I agree with some of his views and can understand the others. I also have a firm belief that it is right to say that it is a "sad day". After all, I awoke this morning and I am still in a daze and very unsure of what the future holds.

Every American should be forced to watch Farenheit 9/11!

Grrrr. How can a dumbass be president? I guess there are a lot of dumbass americans.

The reason people are scared about George Bush being president again is not simply that he plunged us into war, or that the economy sucks, or even that he'll appoint a new justice or two the Supreme Court. Rather, people are scared because George Bush doesn't understand, nor recognize, the seperation of Church and State. I'm all for people having faith and belief. I'm not all for people having faith and belief and pressuing the rest of the world to have the same faith and belief. George Bush plunders the natural resources of the earth because he believes, as John Ashcroft does, that the end of days are coming soon and in the meantime he might as well get rich and happy in the process. I believe in science and religion, George Bush does not. John Kerry might have made a good president, who knows? But George Bush has proven that he is a good Christian and that,frankly, scares the crap out of me.

Remember, in a Democracy, you don't have to have the right policies to win, you just have to outbreed your enemies.

A Professor of Middle Eastern Politics has the same voting power as a Troglodyte digging a trench - don't forget that.

Don't be scared, Bush is a great guy, I don't really hold the same values as you folks but never forget that we are all Americans and that puts us all in the same boat.
God Bless America

It's like watching Titanic in 8 year slow-motion.

I keep reading all these people condemning liberals. I'd kindly like to point out that liberals, like conservatives, are a varied bunch. Some of us are whiney, just like conservatives are whiney. Some of us are in your face, just like conservatives. Some of us are self righteous, just like you. And some of us just go about our everyday lives with a lot of care and concern for our fellow man, just like conservatives. So as one human being to another stop being such asshats. Yes, your guy won. Yes we are upset. You would be to. You'd be bitching if you had lost. People accuse Wil of buyin the Hollywood liberal thing. Well how many middle america types have bought the whole conservative, kick ass type. Wil makes a choice just like they do. That's the glory of this country. CHOICE! And yes some of us are afraid George Bush will take that away from us. And we may or may not be right. Perhaps, rather than name calling, you should step back and attempt to understand our concerns and address them. You obviously don't worry about losing your rights. Tell us why you aren't afraid. You want people to understand your choice and try accept it. Do the human thing and help your fellow man. I think we all can agree with that.

I totally agree with you. It's just the beginning of a nightmare. I also heard that bush sent the terrorist's family back to their country after 9/11. I totally didn't want Bush president again. Kerry won in my state so I was happy about that. Wisconsin wanted Kerry to be the president. Deep down I have this feeling that the whole "Election" was rigged, but of course that's only my feeling.
Say good-bye to U.S jobs (hello overseas) and say good-bye to companies with health insurance and people affording it.

Morgan

I just want you guys to know that for everyone of you who cannot understand why someone could possibly vote for Pres. Bush, there is one of us who cannot understand why one of you would vote for Sen. Kerry. It truly perplexes me, and many like me. So perhaps we aren't so different after all. If it's any consolation, now you know how I felt when President Clinton was re-elected. Buck up, I managed to survive, and you will to.

Amen Wil, Amen.

I'm ashamed to say that I voted for the first time in my life Tuesday (and I'm 40 years old). I didn't want another 4 years of that dumbass. So sad.
I will never not vote again though.

"Where he stood was clear..." As opposed to Kerry, who either took no stance or took every position in a feeble attempt to pander to all demographics. *That* is why he lost. I'm also disappointed that the left thinks that those who vote for Bush love everything he does, want to have his children, etc. Simply not true. Frankly, Ashcroft scares the piss out of me, but these are compromises BOTH parties make. How happy were democrats when they learned of Kerry's plan for "mandatory service", an extention of Rangel's draft bill, introduced simply because "...there aren't enough rich kids enlisting"? No, doesnt sound divisive at all, if you don't have ears. Just stop. Stop with your whining, and get on with your lives. Or is the president preventing that too?

Well, sounds like a lot of you need to start packing.

I agree with Gahrie
"I just want you guys to know that for everyone of you who cannot understand why someone could possibly vote for Pres. Bush, there is one of us who cannot understand why one of you would vote for Sen. Kerry. It truly perplexes me, and many like me. So perhaps we aren't so different after all. If it's any consolation, now you know how I felt when President Clinton was re-elected. Buck up, I managed to survive, and you will to."

And we all have our own opinion and I think Kerry is a complete idiot.

Its been raining sense tuesday afternoon. How fitting

I know of lots of people who are planning ot get the hell outta the US. Hell, Im looking into study abroad grad programs.
One of my professors cancelled classes yesterday, because if we won, theres better things to do than teach a freshman and regular CJ ploicy class and a COurts and Criminal Procedure class. And if we lost...well, I really hope he's calmed down by the law class. Im wearing a helmet :\
On a point of interest...this came out before Bush really started fucking up (or was there a time like that???) Though you might be interested...
American Apology T Shirt

Ahh damn, I fucked up again somehwere. Dont be so surprised. I have a T shirt that says VILLAGE IDIOT on it. Maybe I should mail it to Bush
Here's that link anyway
http://new.zill.net

Well, you're really only half-right, Wil. It's true that our national nightmare is not over, but neither is it just beginnig. In truth, it's HALF over. ;)

Gahrie wrote: "If it's any consolation, now you know how I felt when President Clinton was re-elected. Buck up, I managed to survive, and you will to."

Yes, but Clinton and the Dems didn't call war hawks unamerican or traitors.

No more psychological warfare to trick us into thinking we're not loyal

First off to the people who keep saying 'a majority voted for Bush' like it was some kind of land slide. It's BARELY a majority, but hey, that's our system. As for Hanna who said:
"Well, honestly Will, I disagree with you. But that is the wonderful thing about our country, we can disagree and not be in fear of persecution. I've always believed that you will get exactly what you expect of someone. If you expect that the next four years are going to be a nightmare, then your experience of the next four years will be exactly that. I am not crazy about Bush myself, but I want to believe positively in hopes that things will improve. Just my thoughts. Thanks for letting me share." um.... yeah, get real. If you were gay you might speak differently about persecution. Guess when you're on the side of the persecutors you don't have to worry about speaking out, do you? And as for thinking happy thoughts about what you want out of Bush and Co. What planet are you living on? Sure the next four years don't have to be a nightmare if you are not threatened by their many policies and practices, then sure, close your eyes and ears to what's happening to the people in other parts of this country and the world in general and stay in your happy, ignorant place. Sorry to make my first post so angry, but it's people like this woman just closing their minds to reality and saying 'don't worry, be happy' that allowed Bush his victory. Well Hanna, I hope you never have to feel the boot of the Bushies on YOUR neck. Have a nice life.

Urg... ok, ok, this will be my last post on this thread. To Jon who said that he voted to ban gay marriage because he was raised in a Christian home. If you really feel that marriage is a sacred thing that should only happen in the church, what about all of the non-Christian in this country? The Agnostics? The Atheists? Fine, make marriage a church deal and get it out of government COMPLETELY. What don't you understand about separation of church and state???? READ MY LIPS, I DON'T WANT TO GET MARRIED IN YOUR CHURCH. I JUST WANT MY EQUAL RIGHT LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. (sorry for shouting Wil) All marriages should be civil unions, and if you want to have some ceremony in YOUR church that makes it official to you then fine, do so, but get your church out of my government.

I live in a country where, for a few days, local politics were completely forgotten and everyone was watching the US election. And over 90% of our country was disappointed on the afternoon of the 3rd of November.

Of course, our own government quickly brought us back to reality by the finance minister suggesting that, to boost the economy, we abolish our national holiday (or rather, move it to a Sunday where it can't prevent people from working).

Yes, you heard right, a country pathetic enough to make such choices. A country called Germany. At least our mess of a government won't take away personal freedoms or mess up the world - they've long since gone too ineffective to do that. But George W. can, and I already fear the look of the world by 2008. I wonder when the last time will be that I can travel to America without fear of being too free thinking a person. Or has that already happened ?

I don't know.

Weird... but in the last four years, I haven't noticed any increased Police presence, nor have I noticed any reduction in my rights.

I'm still waiting for the home inspections and the random police stops to check my loyalty card.

As far as I can tell, I can still go or not go to the church of my choice. Or temple. Or mosque. Or whatever. I haven't seen any sign of the religion police making sure I worship right.

Now allowing gays to marry is not the same thing as persecuting them. Texas just elected a lesbian hispanic to office. Not our first gay/lesbian/transsexual to hold elected office i the state, either.

I know a gay couple that has adopted two children recently. They still have them. No one came and took them away.

My wife is a teacher who has a class full of black and hispanic kids. Believe it or not, they let her teach the same things they teach the white kids in the rich schools.

No one has stopped Michael Moore from spewing his vile propaganda. His speech hasn't been suppressed. He even gets awards for his crap. The Democratic Underground web site is still up. I haven't seen any signs that posters vanish in the night.

Where's the police state?

Bolie IV

I'm with Andy. I don't want to get married in a church either. I'm Jewish. I believe the line was about not wanting gays to cram their beliefs down that guys throat? So why should Christianity be crammed down everyone else's throat? I once asked my Rabbi about the conversion process. He explained to me that his DUTY, at first pass, is to try and talk the person out of it; he makes them explain why they want to convert. The rationale is that you should only take on a set of beliefs because you WANT to. There are no Jewish missionaries. We don't try to convert the masses. I was taught that trying to force your religion and your beliefs on someone else is immoral. Fanatics, extemists and fundamentalists do that.

(for those insulted, once again.. gbbloom@hotmail.com - feel free to yell at me)

Unfortunately, this country has a lot of growing up to do. While I am disappointed Kerry did not win, I take comfort in the knowledge that at least Bush will have to bear blame, in the short term and for posterity, for the huge mess he's made. Now he won't get off the hook by passing it on to someone else to fix, or be blamed for not being able to fix.

If it can be fixed. The Iraq cleanup was a no-win situation for Kerry. Things will get a lot worse over there and I'm happy that Bush is stuck with the quagmire he created.

I have a feeling many will soon be kicking themselves for they way they voted.

Despite of what you may think of gay marriage, it will one day be legal. Why do I think this? Because I have four sons ages 21-17, (none of which is gay, btw, not that it would bother me) who could care less if gays married. The fact is that our youth is not as puritan nor as shocked as most adults in this country about two same-sex people living together. 20 years from now, when they are "in power" and the baby boomers and those older have started dying, they will get rid of whatever goofy amendment this President tries to pass. Moreover, gays have already made it to prime time, they are no longer hidden as "freaks" (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy won an Emmy!) and frequent exposure will soon make this arrangement seem mainstream. So, you can have it now, or you can have it later, but you will have it someday. You can't stop progress or an idea whose time has come.

Personally, I'm not sure why the state marries people in the first place. I'd be quite happy if any two people could form an exclusive civil partnership. Allowing more than two would probably be too easy to exploit.

Let churches or whatever do the marrying.

Bush and Kerry both said that they supported marriage only for men and women and civil unions for gays. So they basically took the same stance. The amendment was a joke.

Bolie IV

Rather than make this a 'me too!' post, I thought I'd speak of T-Shirts. America is Scary.

Based on the election results, I am truely saddened and disappointed to see that just over half of us are, more than anything else, self centered and cowardly.

A vote for Bush ignored the reality of corporate corruption without consequence. It signalled a self importance and fear of terrorists (which is EXACTLY what they want). It was a feel good knee jerk reaction to buy into a national and delusional self image of independance and strength.

It seems that voting for Bush and ignoring the realities of the past four years was an acceptance of fear over all else. Some call it "moral values".

Voting for Kerry was voting for an unkown. But the spirit of that vote took courage. It was a vote for an ATTEMPT to right the current wrongs and take some responsibility for the missteps and manipulation.

Maybe Kerry would have been worse than Bush in the end, but I can't help but feel a profound loss and sadness that so many Americans cowered in their own self centered fear and wrapped themselves in the promise of a few meager gold pieces, rather than face up and do the right thing.

We are in very dark times that go beyond a Bush or Kerry vote.

Here in the UK we got the impression for the past couple of years that you guys all dislike Bush. I thought Kerry was a shoe in.
Every American i've spoken to online disliked Bush.
Not to sound horrible, but i used to feel sorry for you guys; i mean, the stereotype you now have over here is that you're all hillbilly idiots. i thought "well they didnt know bush was going to be a madman when they elected him."
Then he gets re-elected.
Sorry, but you deserve everything your country gets from now on.

People,

When you're done with your crying, nashing of teeth and blinking at the TV and Radio in utter disbelief, you need to come to terms with the FACTS.

FACT: George Bush won an IDEOLOGICAL Victory on Tuesday along with his Mandate.

Deal with it already and get over it.

FACT: Realize that your party's message, ideals, and stance were REPUDIATED and spit out like a swig of sour milk because of your mindless hatred and disrespect for the Office of the Presidency.

FACT: Until you people distance yourselves from the lunatic fringe element like Michael Moore, Moveon.org, Martin Sheen, Sean Penn, Danny Glover, Whoppie Goldberg, et al, you will NEVER win an election again. Ever.

FACT: The Heartland of this country DOES NOT agree that our President is a:

- Moron
- Racist
- Homophobe
- Hick

We went out and VISIBLY DEMONSTRATED that we believe that George Bush is an honest, decent, moral, religious person with a core set of beliefs that cannot be shaken by the latest trend or polls.

I have been reading this Web Site for a long time and have had to stomach Wil's stupid little ad link icons with "Anyone But Bush", "Yes, He's a Moron", etc.

Behavior like that is EXACTLY WHY you were humiliated on Tuesday. You people need to grow up and understand that in a time of War, we need to stand behind our President and support out troops NO MATTER WHAT.

George Bush dealt with the 9/11 attacks in the only way you can deal with something like that. He looked the Animal Perpetrators in the eye and went after to them to hunt them down and DESTROY them.

With or WITHOUT the help of the French, Germans and Russians who think that APPEASEMENT and COWTOWING is a solution.

Thank God he's won re-election and can lead this country forward in completing the eradication of Islamic Fundamentalism from the face of this Planet. For rest assured that THAT is the only END that will keep us SAFE.

Usama bin Laden and his ilk must be destroyed. George Bush will see to that while minimizing the chances that we will be attacked again.

--quote--
Thank God he's won re-election and can lead this country forward in completing the eradication of Islamic Fundamentalism from the face of this Planet. For rest assured that THAT is the only END that will keep us SAFE.
--end quote--

Alberto, what happens when someone decides that they are going to wipe the Christian Fundamentalism from the face of this Planet? Who are you to decide which religion is "right"? Who is anyone to arrogantly suggest they have the first clue what G-d wants?

Oh, and anyone who suggests something about a Kerry voter's party ideals being spit out the window... well that's just laughable.
FACT - I voted for Kerry and am a member of the American Patriot Party ( www.patriotparty.us )
FACT - I have friends who are Republicans who voted for Kerry because Bush goes against much of Republican values
FACT - The Republicans stand for smaller government, among other things; Bush has been in favor of LARGER government.
FACT - Bush has gone against his sworn oath to uphold the Constitution and the office of the Presidency.
FACT - Christianity is a religion, not a legal order; remarks about the heartland stepping up and expressing a desire to support a Christian Fundamentalist leader are no different than Muslims doing the same thing in Iran. Congrats on that score.

Read your constitution. Hell, read your party platform! If you're a REAL Republican, then you should absolutely HATE Bush! Making Federal laws to govern things like marriage? Creating larger government and new Federal agencies? Unabashed spending sprees? NATION BUILDING?!? Those are all against what a Republican is SUPPOSED to stand for. I know this, and I'm not even a Republican!

If half of you knew what you were talking about, you'd realize this. But you don't. You support Bush because he likes to kill Arabs, wants to be sure that there are no nations dominated by a religion that isn't his, and wants to spread the evangelical message. Funny, everyone was afraid of JFK getting elected, and being controlled by the Pope. Separation of church and state. What part don't you understand? But then again, I suppose that jobs going over seas, a crippling reliance on oil, healthcare, and education aren't important issues. Make sure those gays can't marry, and make sure Christianity reigns supreme, and Jesus will provide, is that the message? I was always taught that G-d helped those that helped themselves. Middle America shirked it's civic duty, and became the fundamentalist state that it so sorely despises.

Again, I don't hide from feedback or criticism (I notice no one else doing what I'm doing). Email me - gbbloom@hotmail.com - one of you has already argued with me. I'm not shy.

"Thank God he's won re-election and can lead this country forward in completing the eradication of Islamic Fundamentalism from the face of this Planet. For rest assured that THAT is the only END that will keep us SAFE."

Anybody that thinks that IS a moron. This election just went to prove just how stupid and gullible the American Public can be.

What are we replacing it with? Christian fundamentalism? Is he trying to get rid of Islamic Fundamentalists or Islam in it's entirety? To think you can do just one of those is just plain stupid. As long as the religion of Islam exists, there will always be radical fundamentalism.

The only way to really win something like this is to quit meddling in the affairs of other countries, stop slurping up all the oil, and start working on alternative technologies. We should have cars virtually gasoline-free in 10 years-- if we could quit stifling the technology so oil barons can keep lining thier pockets.

Funny how the Bushites conveniently forget that we were supposed to be after the 9/11 terrorists, not on a mission to clense the world of anybody we disagreed with, essentially become the World Police in the process.

Now with Bush back in office, maybe we can go conquer Iran and finish off the oft-forgotten Korean war now.

Now that we have reelected Bush, we have validated everything the terrorist have said about our nation. We aren't safer, we are more likely to be attacked now!

Of course I am sure Bush will make sure we aren't attacked again. He will just step up his terror alerts, and take away some more of our freedoms in the process (us Americans have now proven we will gladly give up freedom for security).

------------------------------
Sorry Wil, hope that doesn't turn the board into a flamefest, I just had to speak my piece. I read your blog all the time, and find it nice to know there are some sane people left in this country.

Still, I never doubted Bush would get reelected, after hearing people at exit polls saying that we shouldn't change presidents during a war.

When it was confirmed Bush won, though, I didn't know whether to cry, or puke.

It is like some kind of twisted amusement park ride you can't get off of. You just have to hold on for dear life and hope it doesn't jump the track and kill everybody.

Now we have 4 more years of this. Canada is looking better every day!

Seriously guys, what did you expect?

A little home truth from the mother country.

I am afraid from this side of the pond the outcome was a dead cert all the way. It seems from here that what you said Wil about everyone standing shoulder to shoulder at first is right.

The problem is not the country it's the attitude that goes with it. I was all for the 'war' when us Brits were going in. Our soldiers are extremily well trained and by and large act with courtesey and honour with the local people plus we dont shoot each other in friendly fire. The gung ho attitude is what is causing this prblem all over the world for Americans. Both of my grandparents have become US citizens, both of whom loved coming to the USA for the 'freedom and the friendliness' they cam to expect but now just cant seem to move for people gagging to pick up a gun, ready to 'defend the flag'. Its masdness. The USA appears to have adopted a policy of 'if we have the right idea it goes without saying that the method we use is the right one'. The brave soldiers in Iraq are fucked, they cant leave now because the mess is worsening. Now Chritsians that where protected under Saddam are being persecuted over there. Why? Because the Americans there are the exapmle of what 'Christianity' stands for! Cocky arrogant and angry young boys with big fat guns dying to pull a trigger in revenge for 9/11 and everyone not there is just so relived they are not they cant wait to thank these boys for their service. Its no coincidence that the British held Basra is pretty safe and where the Americans are is a total mess. We dont have the same anger (understandably) as you do. But the more the British are linked with the USA the more shit we're getting into. You know we used to have an empire to until we realised that imposing rules on people that just dont like our attitude gets you your arsed kicked eventually-remember that next July 4th. Learn from our mistakes.

We supported the USA in going in because it's the right thing to do but that arsehole in charge of the country, supposedly head of the free world is tarring you all with the idiot brush, and worse than that he is fuelling the fire even more. That will not help and will never help until people come together and work out their differences. Show the muslim countries how great it is to be free, and that they can live with you in harmony and that is how peace will spread. But what did America do to start that off? They put a bigger idiot forward who is just as gormless as the other guy. This was a slam dunk for anyone else, but of course people will go with Bush again. Lapping up the 'I approve this message-and then I will let someone else do the talking because I am such an arse'. What is the alternative, oh I know, not voting? Did 100% of the people vote? Did they buggery. To all those people pissing and moaning about the state of affairs, what did YOU do about it?

America has just sentenced the rest of the world to another 4 years of this crap -(we should ALL have had a vote), and some other ididot will probably take over after than just because he is a star-wouldn't be the first time.

Change the damn constitution and give us all a break, then when you get someone in charge that knows what the hell they are doing, you can keep them and put the Clintons back in the whitehouse where they belong or whatch out America, people will one by one just not want to deal with you and will look back to Europe as the new head of the free world.

Wow, just needed to get that off my chest. Good luck guys and well done to all those who at least had a go at changing things and voted. Eventually it will get better.

P.s anyone sick of the USA, come to Britian, we have all sorts here and we pretty much get along-although it took us about 2 hundred years to get the hang of it.
x

Wil, I think that we have the same values as you. The difference is that we apply them to everyone, rather than just our family and circle of friends. We won't sit idly by while people are being murdered simply for not believing in the same invisible man in the sky.

In the words of Dougie Payne from the band 'Travis':
"Surely if the American president is the leader of the Free World, as he claims to be, everybody in this free world should get to vote for the American president."
As a concerned Canadian, I wish I could have voted.

Wil,

As a senior was has spent the last 3 decades as a Jeffsonian Whig I am glad to see that there are young people like you that understand what our founding fathers where hoping to achieve.

As you, I am disappointed that 51% of our fellow Americans prefer an infallible President (Pope?) over a caring human being. I retired from the Catholic Church because I did not believe in the infallibility of a human being. The advantage we have in this country is that the President can only be infallible for four years and not for life.

Just remember that this country has a great capacity for recovery. We have had addicted Presidents ( Andrew Jackson and Ulysses Grant ) and we recovered. We have had inept, incompetent and corrupt presidents ( Calvin Coolidge, Warren Harding and Ronald Reagan ) and we recovered.

The one bright spot in this election, is that young people like yourself overwhelmingly supported the caring human being over the infallible President. If us seniors can find a way to connect with the younger generations so that they will vote in greater numbers, then four years from now we have a hope of starting our recovery.

According to the rules of this site I would say 1/10th of the comments on this post should be deleted because of inflammatory or offensive remarks.

It's obvious to me that many people (51%)in America don't understand the reasoning behind the separation church and state.

There was a reason this separation was created. When a church runs the country, they run disbelievers out by imposing rules and laws which forbid or punish them from acting as they truly believe. Churches don't want their parishioners socializing/marrying non-church people, because that would lessen the strength of the church. Churches also have harsh punishment for sinning, i.e. banishment or shunning (in a church state, imprisonment or extradition).
If we still lived in a Church state you could be imprisoned or killed for cheating on your wife/husband.

NOT THAT I'M SAYING that it will get this bad, but I like to deal in extremes.

If I was of the faith of any middle-eastern country, or gay/lesbian and currently lived in the US I would be presently packing my bags. Being "brown" in America immediately targets you as a suspect, even if there is no crime.

If you are gay and try to get married in a church you will be turned down, so gay marriage is essentially only a legality. Many gays are currently married, living common-law. If you are concerned with gays marrying maybe you should keep your mind out of other peoples bedrooms.

"Earlier today, Senator Kerry called with his congratulations," Bush said. "We had a really good phone call. He was very gracious. Senator Kerry waged a spirited campaign, and he and his supporters can be proud of their efforts."

If they can chill out so can we...

On November 2nd, Wil wrote this:

"Salon, DailyKos, Atrios, Josh Marshall, The Daily Howler, Juan Cole, and Kevin Drum are just a few of the sites I read at least once a day. I do a lot of nodding along in agreement when I read them..."

I propose that Wil isolated himself from opposing viewpoints, which is why he couldn't see the very real possibility of a Bush victory. I suggest he stop this coccooning and expose himself to a wider variety of commentary.

Wow. Gay marriage is such a minor issue compared to other things that are going on. If I voted on the issue of gay marriage, I would have voted for Kerry. Given that there are more important issues out there, I didn't use that as my litmus test. Did you?

Gay marriage is currently illegal almost everywhere. The Federal government isn't going to go make it MORE illegal. It may resist making it legal, but that's not going to stop gays from living together and having families, etc...

Sodomy is illegal in Texas. It was when Bush was Governer. It was when Ann Richards, a DEMOCRAT was governer.

Bill Clinton did not do anything to foster gay marriage.

The "Arab-hating" President currently has an Arab as CENTCOM over operation Enduring Freedom. General John Abizaid is the son of a Lebanese immigrant, speaks Arabic, went to school in Jordan, has a Middle Eastern Studies degree, and has served in the Middle East. His mother was Christian, so he probably is, too. But he's hardly a WASP or Aryan overlord.

People who voted for Bush don't hate Arabs. Our military could have sustained even fewer casualties if we'd indiscriminately killed civilians in our efforts to get the Baathists and terrorists. Our soldiers go out of their way to protect civilians and mosques. All of the mass graves in Iraq were filled by Saddam's regime.

Bolie IV

Dear Will:

May I call you Will? From watching you on STTNG, I feel like I know you. I actually liked the character of Wesley Crusher on TNG. I thought he was resourceful and intelligent and I saw nothing wrong with such a character. Unfortunately, the Wesley Crusher character is not who you are, though you would do well to be more like him.

I have read several of the comments regarding your post concerning the election. I’ve seen a lot of insults and name calling. I’ve seen a lot of disparaging of one side or the other, mostly from the liberals which post to your site. I don’t want to insult or disparage. I don’t think that will accomplish anything. But I do feel compelled to reply, not only to what you’ve written, but others as well. You said you’d hope you would wake up and find “our long national nightmare over”. You also said “it’s just beginning”.

I think that is an unfortunate way to feel. Here is what I want to know from many of the people who are posting here who voted for John Kerry. Why did you vote for him? I do not understand how any thinking person could vote for him. Can you tell me one thing about John Kerry or one thing he stood for that compelled you to vote for him? In my opinion, Mr. Kerry did not make the case as to why he should have been voted in as President of this country. Mr. Kerry was very inconsistent on many things. Case in point: He said in the first debate that “you have to pass a global test when it comes to deciding whether or not to go to war.” I would like to point out that during the first Gulf War, this so-called global test was met, and Mr. Kerry still voted against the war. Mr. Kerry never really solidified his position on the war in Iraq, nor in my opinion, never really showed that he truly understood the threat that faces our country in the form of terrorism. Mr. Kerry made clear that he was going to raise taxes for those who earn $200,000 or more. I ask you why is this a good thing? Why should the government be able to enact confiscatory taxes on those who are considered “rich”? You see folks, those so-called rich people are the ones who provide jobs for a lot of other people, amongst other things. Mr. Kerry talked about how health care needs to be provided for all Americans. Now, I don’t deny that there are definitely problems with out health care system, but Senator Kerry’s solution on how to fix the problem was rooted in a government-based solution. This would be disastrous, as the flu vaccine shortage should prove too many, although many probably don’t realize the reasons for the shortage, here it is:

As was reported by the Wall Street Journal, "The reason for today's shortage - as well as seven previous preventive vaccine shortages since 2000 - is that there are just five vaccine makers.
"This lack of suppliers is partly thanks to Hillary Clinton, who as first lady turned government into the majority buyer of vaccines and pushed prices so low as to make business unsustainable."

Don’t you see? The government came in to the Vaccine makers and said “here is the price you’re going to sell the vaccines to us for”. Whenever government takes over an industry and controls the prices, it prohibits a company from making a profit. Now, you might disagree with companies making a profit, but that is what Capitalism is all about, and why this country is as great as it is, why there are so many opportunities for so many people, why we have the prosperity that we do, and why, I might add, you Will are able to do what you are able to do. Be an actor, writer, and entertainer. Will, I don’t begrudge you that. But Will, Hollywood and those of you in it are NOT the real world. You folks don’t live in the work-a-day world like so many of us do. Many of you do not go to a daily job and punch a clock day in and day out to provide for your families. Again, I don’t begrudge you that. If you’re able to do that, I think it’s great. To continue:

As noted by the Kansas City Star this week, the decision to force vaccine makers to discount their price resulted in "declining financial incentives to develop and produce vaccines."
What's more, the vaccination rate "barely budged" after the Hillary-Edelman brainchild was implemented.
Hillary's "reform" did, however, manage to leave the nation thoroughly unprepared to handle the current flu crisis.

You see? The government micro-managing vaccines caused there to be no financial incentive to continue developing vaccines. Like it or not, business can’t just do things for free or nearly free.

The other problem with Mr. Kerry was that he seemed to have no core convictions. He never had the same consistent position on the issues. Telling people what you think they want to hear all the time isn’t the way to win an election.

Like it or not, a large majority of this country is conservative. It is religious. I am a conservative. What exactly does that mean? It means we are for limited government. Smaller government. I believe government needs to get out of the daily lives of people. Now I realize that some of the things that Mr. Bush did in his first term increased the size of government and increased the deficit. I did not agree with the Presidents education reform. In fact, with regard to education, I think the whole public school system needs to be over-hauled. We continue to throw money at it, and it continues to fail. That’s coming from someone who had a public school education. I do not feel that the President is doing enough to secure our borders. Being conservative also means championing lower taxes. Let’s not forget, that when President Bush’s tax-cuts went into place, everyone got a tax cut, even those who pay NO taxes. Being conservative means recognizing the sovereignty of this country to govern itself, and not have to get permission from the United Nations. I’m going to be honest with you. I don’t care what the rest of the world thinks of us. I don’t care what France or Germany think of us. I don’t care what the UN thinks of us. In fact, I think it’s time to leave the UN and boot them out of this country. We are a Sovereign nation. Let’s not forget people, that WE were attacked on 9/11. Now many of you in the “blame America first” crowd are going to say, “well, we were attacked because of our arrogance, because of the way we are”. Well I think that’s only partially true. We were attacked primarily because of our friendship with Israel, plain and simple. This Islamo-Facist terrorists hate us because of our relationship with Israel. They hate Israel, and want Israel wiped from the face of the earth. This is a conflict that goes back to the beginning of time. I would further point out that if there is a hatred of us for how we are, let’s not forget that Hollywood plays a big part in that folks. The bottom line, is that with these people, it’s either kill them or be killed. Like it or not, Iraq is one of the fronts in the war on terror. Those of you who decided to believe the lies of Mr. Kerry and the main stream media, I feel sorry for you.

Mr. Kerry did not prove he had the leadership ability or the gumption to continue to carry out the war on terror. In fact, he said we need to get back to where it’s just a “nuisance”. Had John Kerry been elected, that would have been the beginning of a long, national nightmare. Mr. Kerry was disingenuous in many ways. He impugned the Presidents character and never put forth any concrete plans for any of the things he suggested. He often said “I have a plan”, but never outlined it. These are some of the reasons why he was rejected. Not to mention, look who he aligned himself with: Michael “fat-a$$” Moore, George Soros, Barbara Streisand, Move-On.org, amongst others. All part of the Liberal kook-fringe of the Democratic party.

The bottom line though is this: In reality, we cannot let our lives depend on who is in the White House. The sun is still going to come up. Many of you however have responded to the re-election George W. Bush with hysterics, whining and gnashing of teeth. Case in point:

The Bush administration used 9-11 to take away your freedoms and basically write a blank check to take your liberties, invade a country and award the rich. How can you be so frightened that you think this is the best course for us? You think Bush will protect you? He cant even protect the soldiers that are in the war zone right now. I dont need his kind of protection and truth be told, the true MAJORITY doesnt need it either. I am a female, veteran, mother, a USAF contractor and patriot. How can you people be so blind? This is a sad day for America. Put on the rubber boots and prepare for the sh*t storm.

Someone tell me what freedoms have been taken away? Someone please tell me what liberties we’ve lost? Since 9/11, I haven’t noticed any loss of freedom. Have you? Have any of you been prohibited from doing the things you normally do? I don’t think so. It’s time for you people to get a grip, get on board with the rest of us and move this country forward and forget about the UN and their tripe. Stop being so doom and gloom. Things are going to be fine. Sorry for such a long post.

Regards

Umm...Bolie...

Nothing personal...but it's spelled "governor"...

First of all, to the person who said people in the south should not vote, I am in the south and I voted for Kerry! What really frightens me is the amount of new teenage voters that I heard saying they voted for Bush because they thought his daughters were hot. That is how the decided their vote? If Bush does not take notice of how many voted for Kerry and that there are MANY Americans unhappy with how he is running things, and in response make some changes, then yes, American is doomed. We will no longer be a world leader, we will be alone, all alone. I am scared. I am scared that Bush is too ignorant, self-delusional, and self-absorbed to be able to see past his own goals - whatever those may be.

Gay marriage was used as a smokescreen to lure "values voters" attention away from other, more important things that are far more insidious and dangerous to this country.

It can only work once and when the "values voters" find out they've been had, there will be anger at an administration that has looted the treasury for the benefit of the rich, imposed religious beliefs on the population (despite their claims of culture war, the religious right has never been able to point to any time they've been forced to do or watch anything - what they watch has always been a choice -- but they think it's okay to shove religion down everybody's throats whether WE want it or not), and changed private medical decisions into something the state can interrupt and intrude upon at any time.

When enough of the sons and daughters,husbands and wives, mothers and fathers of middle Americans have been killed in Bush's Oil Wars, the "values voters" may get the message that they were merely pawns used and lied to by expert and corrupt politicians.

For those who keep claiming Kerry was going to institute a draft, apparently you never saw or heard him say he wouldn't and he even put it in writing. Yet, you keep insisting he was going to do a draft. What's it take to get through your pigheaded little skulls?

Well, it seems that although Europe disagrees for the most part with the US, the American people like George Bush and want him for another four years. They want us to continue in Iraq and they want us to continue the war on terror. Iran and North Korea are sleeping lightly for certain!

I would have voted for an egg plant if it meant getting GW out.

Why should someone who has lied to you on such a profound level be allowed to keep their job? Yeah. I'm talkin' this whole Iraq mess. There are countless other countries whose human rights records are worse than Iraq's--some of whom we continue to support financially. Why Iraq? WMDs, even though none were found. George--where was your credible evidence? Where's your reasonable suspicion? Blame the intelligence community? YOU'RE THE FRIGGIN' PRESIDENT! THE BUCK STOPS WITH YOU, PAL!!

Imagine if you will if your local police were given the power to apply this sort of mentality. No warrants...no reasonable syuspicion. And if it were possible to admit that it was just that...a simple mistake typed in to the report--well, that would be somewhat more forgivable. But add two parts Halliburton, one part oil, three parts BIG BUSINESS OPPS and voila. Connect the friggin' dots. Meantime, North Korea is humming away, producing party favors of their own and our reply is what? "Bah--we'll get to it Later...maybe talk to them about it".

Why should someone who hasn't done his job be allowed to keep his job? One question: where the Hell is Bin Laden? Refer to the widely-played videotape segment of Bush, in April of 2002 saying (I'm paraphrasing) "I'm really not interested in where he is...". How can THAT go without your concern or scrutiny?

And what about the fact that we are now in record debt, we've mangled our image with other nations in a way that will take generations to undo and gas prices are at an all-time high. Among others.

And what about his personal life? This is the guy who was investigated for performing Martha-Stewart-tpye shenanigans with the stock market, was a "C" student and frat party boy in college and has never run a successful business in his life.

And yet this man has the idiotic gumption to look you right in the eye and "hyuk-hyuk-hyuk" about his accomplishments.

This is the guy we've elected as president?

But, he apparently prays to God before he goes to bed. So he must be a good, honest, moral man.

I don't think people are angry because Kerry lost. They're angry because its unfathomable to believe how many people in this country can't see the forest for the trees.

Anyone wanna bet how high gas will be in six months?

Hyuk-hyuk-hyuk...

To William Sherman (way up there), THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU !! I approve of gay marriage, stem cell research and a myriad of other issues vital and important to the United States. Because I have exercised my right of independent free speech, and voted for Bush, I have been thus on this board been called a redneck, a bigot and a host of other things to weak to discuss. People say thay cried when Bush won. Things like that do not make me cry. I was told two years ago that I had cancer. THAT made me cry. People need to put things in some sort of perspective. Both men fought the good fight. There could only be one winner. Now, how about we all work together to make things better, instead of venting nastiness at each other. Life is too damn short.

Thanks,

Pook

Aren't you luck you live in a Country where you can say what ever you want and NOTHING will be done to you. GO BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOUR MORE GOOD YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As Kent Brockman says, "I've said it before and I'll say it again; democracy just doesn't work."

However you feel about Kerry, there's no way that George W Bush could ever lead a country. I think that any system in which he could be selected as the winner is fundamentally broken.

People who voted for him like his "character" and "follow through". The problem is that the choices he made were horrible, horrible mistakes. It's far more important to make *correct* decisions than it is to not waver. Sticking steadfastedly to a mistake is a *character flaw*. That's not to mention his various other lies.

In a proper political system, selecting Bush wouldn't even have been an option because he would have been seen as unqualified.

Aside from the man, there's the platform. Republicans went from a party that didn't want big government, to one that wants the government to take away people's rights. One that wants the government in people's bedrooms, and wants to impose one small sect's religious views on the rest. America was founded on freedom of religion. It is exactly the religious persecution that the republican party is trying to impose that caused the founders of the country to flee Europe.

Many republicans are smug, thinking that 51% of the votes represents a mandate. Thinking that this means that the majority shares their views. The fact is, the majority doesn't. The majority of the planet overwhelmingly wanted Kerry to win. They're horrified at Bush being elected. Bush supporters are out of touch with the majority of the human race, but unfortunately have a very, very slight majority among voters in the US.

I grew up in Canada, and now live in Boston. I keep wondering if there's some way that the north-east can ask that the border be moved down a bit.

To Merc:

"The fact is, the majority doesn't. The majority of the planet overwhelmingly wanted Kerry to win. They're horrified at Bush being elected. Bush supporters are out of touch with the majority of the human race, but unfortunately have a very, very slight majority among voters in the US."

Guess what Merc: We here in America don't care what the rest of the planet wanted. What is wrong with you people? You continue to forget that on 9/11 we as a nation were attacked, and you continue to think that Osama Bin Laden and Afghanistan are the only fronts in the war we should have pursued. You continue to parrot that the President lied to us concerning the reason we went into Iraq, WMD's. Yet the President never defined that as the sole reason. You all forget that former President Clinton saw the same intelligence and considered Saddam Hussein a threat. Mr. Kerry, the man you think should have been elected, also made his own case for why we needed to go into Iraq, again based on the same intelligence. Connect the dots people! LIKE IT OR NOT, IRAQ WAS A COUNTRY THAT BRED AND EXPORTED TERRORISM. We have removed that threat. Let's also not forget that Mr. Hussein had plenty of time to comply with UN sanctions, and plenty of time to remove his weapons. In fact, sources say that his weapons were removed prior to the start of the war. Wake up people, and smell the coffee! What is it going to take for you to see that the terrorists don't want to make nice with us. They want to kill us. With John Kerry in the White House, there's a good chance they would have succeeded, because John Kerry is weak.

You say you grew up in Canada? Well, if you have such a problem living here, go back. We don't need you. Too many of you are getting your information from the mainstream media, which is often slanted towards liberal bias. Stop being so hysterical. Despite what you think, we are not turning the country into a theocracy.

Regards

amen doc.......

As far as gay marriage goes, Kerry didn't support it either did he?

First of all, I'd like to thank all of you for posting. Your names have been taken down and we'll be tapping your phones and going through your mail until we can trump up some evidence that you are enemy combatants...

I would like to address the police/warrant analogy to Iraq that was made above...

Saddam's Iraq would be like that asshole neighbor who beats his wife and children (rumor has it that he's killed several of his children), shoots up the neighbors houses, breaks into one neighbors house and then runs back out when the police come claiming he was drunk and thought it was his house. Then the police tell him he has to destroy all of his guns in front of a police officer who will come by and check periodically. This asshole proceeds to move his guns from room to room, locking doors in front of the officer, move sealed boxes around the house labeled "SEKRET" and generally ignoring and flaunting demands.

Then, after 10 years, the police finally kick in his door and drag him to jail. In the shoot out, though an officer and one of the assholes surviving children are both killed. The rest of the children and his wife are freed.

Funny thing is he actually did destroy his guns, he just didn't tell anyone and hid that fact from the guy who was supposed to verify that he'd destroyed them. They also find that a couple of his kids were killed and buried in the backyard.

So what is it we should have done?

Bolie IV

Hey Will, big fan! Hope to see you on G4TechTV sometime in the future. That said I just wanted to say that I couldn't disagree with you more. I don't see the next four years as a disaster; quite the opposite. Based on the election results, I am most definitely not alone. Take a look around Will... Just because we dont all think like you doesnt make us wrong, nor does it doesnt make us evil. We just have a different point of view. I think the "Democratic left" has done plenty in an attempt to divide this country so I think there is plenty of blame to go around here. Keep geekin' --Linux Rules!

I think the polarization we're seeing here is the result of listening or reading news that you agree with rather than being active in your search for differing points of view. I'd rather form my opinion based on things that I hear from soldiers in and returning from Iraq than from the Right or Left media. Try corresponding with someone actually on the ground over there (a soldier, not a reporter).

I have SIRIUS in my car and listen to right wing on my way to work and left wing on my way home (40 miles each way) -- listening to both points of view helps me hear both sides of any story.

Here are two paraphrases of quotes from soldiers that really hit me:

"I'd rather die here in Iraq than live through sifting the wreckage of Boston or Newark"

"I think the media is doing us an injustice by sitting at their hotel in the green zone, buying footage from Al jazeera (through Iraqi intermediaries) and making up the stories to match their pre-conceptions"

Well somehow we have all entered GOP Bizzaro World where the American people have decided to ignore the proven lies spewed out by this administration. I hope Bush follows through with actually reaching out to the other side and working togeather.

The posters who are so lackadaisical about this matter - "oh, it's still a free country; *somebody* will stop Bush; it's an *opportunity*, _really_" - infuriate me. Listen: Bush is, at heart, a zealot. Since he no longer has to worry about appealing to the moderates for reelection, he has no incentive to reign himself in. He now has license to remake the country in his fundamentalist image. He sees himself - and half the country sees him - as God's mouthpiece. Because of that, his decisions are divine writ, infallible - no matter how disastrous their actual consequences.

The Republican-controlled Congress will take the election results as a mandate, and Bush's coattails are too tempting (and his campaign coffers way too deep and supporters too fanatical) for GOP politicians not to ride. Congress will enthusiastically support his every proposal - and Bush'll soon have justices who won't raise a finger if he shreds the Constitution Article by Article. *No one* - NO ONE - in government or the electorate can or will stop him now.

(And to those who say that four years isn't a long time - it took only a couple hours to bring down the Towers. Or, if you prefer, a couple days to enact the Patriot Act.)

Those of you laid-back Joes: why on earth do you think the gay and the female posters here are so panicked? The Bush administration wants to make them a lower class of human beings - God's pariahs, too dumb and amoral to be allowed dominion over their own bodies. A few of you white guys might not look beyond your own demographic self-interest and decide, as per the above comments, to shrug off this election. As an American woman, I am scared to death that, with the certain reversal of Roe vs. Wade, I will become a second-class citizen in my own country. (And, hey: what *about* the draft? You really don't think, if Bush sees another target for his Crusade, that he'll honor his promise and not enact one? Take a look at the backstabbing that characterized the passage of No Child Left Behind before you say yes. The man has no honor.)

This *is* serious. We in the American left can't be ho-hum.

I thought I'd pipe up again. I live in West Virginia. Yes, we are a real state. No, we're not the western part of Virginia. I have a Bachelor's degree. I've been working in the real world since 1999. In the last two years, my family's life has become much, much better. Know why? Tax cuts. My employer was able to expand business and increase pay, while at the same time I had to pay less taxes. This is federal, mind you. Our state taxes are still through the roof. I have to pay for half of my health insurance premiums. Would I rather pay nothing? Sure. But, due to OVERALL rising healthcare costs, EVERYONE'S health insurance is going up. Is there a quick fix to this? Nope. Do many politicians on both sides want us to think there is a quick fix? Yup. As to outsourcing, remember NAFTA? Remember who was president when NAFTA was signed? Check out http://www.citizen.org/trade/nafta/index.cfm

Did I agree with John Kerry? No. Do I think anyone who voted for him was an idiot? No. As such, I resent being called an idiot because I voted for Bush. Since 9/11, I have had NO rights revoked. I still own my guns, I'm still allowed to travel freely, and my phone has not been tapped. Know why? I OBEY THE LAW! Furthermore, I resent the fact that some very vocal people in the entertainment industry think that New York and LA should be able to dictate my morals. I don't live in New York or LA. I don't think any less of anyone who does. It's just not my cup of tea. Just like John Kerry and John Edwards were not my cup of tea.

Finally, people need to stop confusing morals with religion. Do they have some interaction? Yes. However, some morals have nothing to do with religion. Walking up to a stranger on the street and killing him/her is immoral, no matter what religion you observe. I'm pretty sure that atheist would even agree on this count. As to the issue of gay marriage, this is my opinion. If you are truly in love, and want to get married for love, I don't necessarily disagree with it. However, from all of the coverage I saw, the most vocal activists were more concerned about getting their partner's benefits than marrying for love.

As to the people complaining the money being spent on the war on terror should be spent on education, healthcare, etc. Wake up! We have been pumping more and more money into our education system for decades, and all the while, reported test scores, disparities between school districts, etc. have been widening. Not to characterize anyone here, but this is a typical Liberal attitude. If something is not working the way you would like, just throw some more money at it until it fixes itself.

One final thought. All the political "experts" that have been on TV, radio, and in articles the past two years? Suprise, but they generally have an agenda. Take things with a grain of salt, people! Especially since the entire spectrum of the media can generally say whatever they like, and are rarely forced to apologize and retract statements when they are proved wrong.

over half of america voted for bush. that says something. someone commented on here that if kerry actually stood for something, more would have voted for him. i think that was his problem, people had no clear idea what the man would do. with bush, you might disagree with him, but he never changed his message... just kept hammering the same points repeatedly. and that obviously resounded with a slight bit more of americans. to me, it is clear that the country is divided. will it take another 9/11 to bring us back together? i pray not. but the horrors of that day could very well be repeated by these wackos who target our malls, schools and sports stadiums. i want to know that my president is willing to stand up for me when things get tough. i don't want him to ask the UN permission to defend this country. i don't want him to ask the world if it is ok. i want a decisive leader who will take action. and, obviously, half of america wants the same thing.

the only other thing i would say about all these people who claim they would move if bush got elected... please do it. don't just talk about it. move. go to another country where things are so much better than here.

And to Rich above, who claimed that "Iran and North Korea are sleeping lightly for certain" because of Bush's actions: actually, they're sleeping pretty soundly, since both took serious steps toward nuclear armament in the wake of Iraq to dissuade Bush from invasion. And, so far, it's been an effective ploy.

Iraq is a terrorist haven, and more unstable world leaders are on their way to getting nukes. More wonderful effects of Bush policy.

if the entire planet were to vote in this election, do you think for even a second that bush would win? NO. he would lose by an landslide. what does that say????????

thank you for this entry, wil. it helps remind those of us who are fortunate enough not to be americans that there are in fact 48% of you who have a clue.

Fact is, W made a huge case that the WMDs existed, relying on bogus documents, distorting intelligence and ignoring other reports, repeatedly telling the American people to trust him. We did. The Congress did. He embroiled us, with mostly token support even from our "allies" in a quagmire, doing just the kind of "nation building" he so vehemently opposed to begin with. The quagmire is expensive in dollars, American lives, and the lives and homes of innocent Iraqis. And the rationale for the war--admit it or not--has shifted almost by the minute.

Perhaps with international buy-in, we might have made a reasoned decision to depose Saddam Hussein, but given that Iraq did not pose an immediate threat to us, we could and should have waited. Are we also to wage war on Iran? North Korea? Saudi Arabia? Sudan? Wasn't it the bush leaguers who so opposed humanitarian intervention in Somalia and the Balkans? Face it: we need the monetary support and solidarity of the international community in a situation like this.

And what has this war gotten us? A world that is less safe, as we have now cast ourselves as an lumbering, oppressive empire. The undying enmity of the Arab world. Our young people in an untenable circumstance. A rising Shiite power in Iraq. And the mistrust and disdain of the rest of the world. What had begun with compassion and support after 9/11, W has transformed into disgust.

And all this is just the war; don't start on the environment, tax policy, social security, health care, the right to choose, separation of church and state, non-discrimination against gays and lesbians, and just about every other issue I care deeply about.

Face it; those of us who loathe this man's record do so for a reason. Telling us to leave the country not only will not work, it's an absurd response in a republic. We're going to stay, to work, to highlight every injustice and gaffe that the hateful cabal makes.

Oh man... where to start... too many zealots to get yelled at by, but here goes.

I saw Doc... Doc mentioned Osama attacking us on 9/11.. and moved on to mention how we had to attack Iraq. Well, I agree with you. I mean, since we have Bin Laden in custody, the next logical... oh wait... I'm getting some new information... hey, howabout that, we DIDN'T catch Bin Laden! Oh well, I'm sure he won't mess with us again.

Someone mentioned the concept of moving. Go scope the net. There were a lot of people trying to spur a movement that said that Texas should leave the Union if Kerry was elected. See, under their joining, Texas is ALLOWED to leave if they want. They'd leave, and make Bush their President, because they'd be better off without the US. Now, I don't plan on moving, or asking to take NY out of the nation. But, hey, if you're yelling at people here, I expect that you'll go over and bitch out those Texans, right? I mean, since you accuse people of a one sided argument, you wouldn't want to be one-sided yourself, would you?

Ugh.. why do we even bother arguing these points folks? The argument is over. The day is over. Kerry was classy; he didn't want to drag things out, so he conceded early. Good man. And Bush, he's a good man too, so you folks tell me. Incidentally, if he attacks another country, or if he needs to draft, I don't have to go, right? You guys said he promised not to. As a good Christian, he wouldn't lie, and if he does, then I don't have to go right?

In all seriousness, look people... G-d is clearly already in favor of abortions, or else He wouldn't have allowed Row v Wade - LOTS of people prayed about that one, and G-d handed down His decision. So, if someone tried to overturn it, they'd burn in hell, right? Help me out here evangelists.

I think that's called being a conscientious objector.

Wil, Canada weeps for thee. Come, join the hordes moving here.

Sean Penn. Michael Moore. Janeane Garofalo. Ashton Kutcher. Alec Baldwin. Wil Wheaton. Liberal Hollywood wingnuts, one and all. Good work guys.

A "nightmare" the next four years? A "disaster"? I think some people need a little bit more perspective. This isn't the Depression, this isn't WW2, no one's religious beliefs are being forced on anyone, regardless of all the bleating about the "religious right" talking over.

Nothing about his previous four years was a disaster, except that 40 million people in 2 countries were liberated, which IS a disaster for totalitarians.

Let me point out something to everyone saying there will be no draft. There already is. If you are in and about to get out, you are denied the ability to get out. That is imoral.
Before anybody tells me that they volunteered, I will tell you to read the damn contract. I still have mine. It says that I have a few rights, one of which is to expect to be seperated from the military at the time the contract expires unless there is a national emergency.
Funny, I don't see Congress declaring one. There also wasn't such a policy in place during Vietnam. You know, that place Bush and Cheney managed to buy their way out of.
The military is already stretched too thin. The National Guard and Reserves are facing 10K in shortages this year. Funny, no one wants to leave the Regular Army just to get called up in the Reserves. So where are the necessary troops coming from?
The Draft. I predict another draft with a college deferment, that way the rich kids (since they are going to cut financial aid again) will be able to get out, but the poor won't.
The draft by those Democrats was a Bill to make a point. Everyone over 18 goes, man or woman, rich or poor. No one wanted it, but they wanted the Republicans to face the fact, and they wanted everyone, including the Bush Twins, to be in the lottery. It was a ploy to make him have to deal with reality, and all it did was give the Republicans something else to use. They told everyone about it but left out the crucial facts. Nice, lying by omission.
Good moral values there. Just like having daddy pay your way into a jet so you won't get shot at, putting people with an obvious conflict of interest in charge of our natural resources, allowing mentally retarded kids to get executed.

The sad thing this election makes apparent is how uneducated the average American voter really is. Its the rhetoric that people believe when the go to the polls. Unfortunately, Bush is just too damn good at lying - and being believable.

Hopefully he makes things so bad over the next two years that the Republicans loose congress.

God Bless America... God Save America!

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah

"Can't we all just get along?"

Rodney King
LA, CA
1992

I'm saddened by the Bush/Cheney victory. I'm not an American, and I find it baffling how someone could make a case for war on the basis of WMD, then have it become clear there was no threat at all, then be re-elected. Accountability is dead in America.

Of course, what's really worrisome is the Jeb Bush two term presidency that will follow, beginning in 2008....

There are other issues pro or con besides the war.

conservativeX said: "over half of america voted for bush. that says something."

Yeah, it does. It means we have far too many dumb people here. The flip side of this is that they will soon get what they deserve.

Wow. You left wingers really are a bunch of drama queens aren't you? The world is not ending. Grow up and get on with your lives.

Wil.... I agree 100%. I literally heard the results yesterday and popped on the internet to find out what one would need to do to move to Canada (Ok, a bit drastic, I'll give you that, but I was mighty upset!). It will be a mighty long next 4 years... unfortunately, while a Christian, my prayers were NOT answered yesterday morning as I certainly can not support someone who oppresses people freely and without any remorse. There is one positive to this: I will have highly entertaining day by day calendars for the next 4 years as he will obviously supply us with plenty of stupid bushisms.

Was there an election?

I am amazed at how many young people, I'm talking High School age and younger who took a stand against Kerry and believe that this war is justified. I suppose they are brainwashed by their parents.
I wonder how they are going to feel when Uncle Sam comes knocking on their door to tell them that they are being drafted because we have lost too many of our troops and we have spent all the money trying to put Iraq back together, so "here's your T-shirt and ball cap, sorry no gun, better hurry 'cause they're coming to attack us."
It's truly a sad day in this nation. We are all going to Hell in a hand basket because someone wants a couple more oil wells. Gas is $2 a gallon where I live, if this war were not about oil, why is gas so high????

Bush is right. He'll never speak to a draft. He ain't pulling no wool there.

But now Congress on the other hand...

Hmmmm....

I am not American, so I don't expect that my opinion on the actual election matters, but I have to say this - being Canadian really hits home, when, as happened last week, my brother was injured by a hit and run driver, and received immediate, government-paid medical attention, had surgery, was in intensive care, is now in hospital (again, still covered by health insurance that is provided by the gov't.) and is receiving excellent, professional health care, all the while not having to stress about medical bills, and we, the rest of the family, not having to freak about it, either. That is worth all the taxes we pay here. I can't imagine having to worry about the money, on top of all the anxiety about his recovery. Suggestion? Maybe next time, the U.S. voters will demand that one of the candidates comes up with a universal health care system for your citizens. Here's hoping.